Happy Independence day U.S.A.

[Fawks]

I know many people hate the U.S., I don't. I'm one of those who look at what America stands for. Freedom. At least until the liberals get a hold of it.

[DigitalMaestro]

I do believe we live in the greatest country on the face of the planet. The trick is to restore her former glory and prevent any more damage at the hands of both zealots and communists {translate: idiots and liberals }

--Digital Maestro

[Fawks]

I do believe we live in the greatest country on the face of the planet. The trick is to restore her former glory and prevent any more damage at the hands of both zealots and communists {translate: idiots and liberals }

--Digital Maestro

Too True.

[dellstart]

I do believe we live in the greatest country on the face of the planet. The trick is to restore her former glory and prevent any more damage at the hands of both zealots and communists {translate: idiots and liberals }

--Digital Maestro

Too True.

Amen!!

[furry_wolf2001b]

Hate?
Liberals?

Pardon me, but i think it is distrust thats the issue.
And again, i don't think it is the "liberals" that has sown it.

As seen by your statement alone, America got some problems, witch its people loves to blame on some one else, and that goes for both sides.
Wonder who they are going to blame for their failing car industry..
Oh yeah, the gas prices..
Never mind they could have had some one learn how to make cars that DON'T gussle gas like a bottomless hole.

[Fel]

Conservatives...Liberals...they're just opposite sides of the same coin, and equally destructive.

Either we live in a socialist state where the government runs, oversees, controls, or regulates absolutely everything, or we live in a corporate state where the rich and the biggest corps control everything through the dark window of "free capitalism" and "trickle-down economics" and "tax cuts," and the only rule of law that matters is the number of zeros behind the money you have in the bank.

Both sides are equally radical. Both sides seek nothing more than the complete conquering and destructin of America to mold it into their own "grand design" which will destroy everything the country stands for. Both sides are not good for my country.

Democrats and Republicans...they should just be called Republocrats, since they're just two wings of the same power party that controls America.

And they are in charge, and have written all the rules to suit them to ensure that nobody else can play their game. They have blocked off all other avenues for independents and third party candidates to win seats in national offices by making it virtually impossible to get on the ballot unless you're a member of the Republocrat party.

This will probably put me on a terrorism watch list, but I don't care and so be it, it's nothing I haven't said before, and something I firmly believe. And since it's July 4 weekend, I feel it's my patriotic duty to say it.

In his farewell address, President George Washington pleaded with his friends and companions in positions of power, and to the people themselves, not to form political parties. President Washington begged them not to do it, because he feared, and he knew, that they would destroy everything he and the other founding fathers had worked so hard to create.

He was right.

The Republocrats are destroying my country, and they have to go. All of them. They have thrown the rule of law away, and they're pissing on the Constitution like it was just a few guidelines that can be overstepped when it pleases them and not the absolute rule of law that binds us all together. But, since they have firmly entrenched themselves into the federal government, have written all the rules to make it absolutely impossible for them to be removed through elections and due process, the only way the people will get rid of them is through revolution.

That's right, you heard me. Revolution. Overthrow the government and replace it with people who will cherish the Constitution and hold it to be what it is, the inviolate law of the land that is to be obeyed.

I don't remember the exact quote, and I believe it was Alexander Hamilton that said it though I might be wrong, but the quote that always struck me is paraphrased thusly: the last resort of a true patriot of his country is revolution.

See, it's been a long time since the Republocrats have held power, and their greed is starting to show through the illusion they maintain to keep Ameicans divided against "the other party." America is like Rome (thus the inspiration for Kit's capstone), we are an empire in decline, and we have passed the pinnacle and have began the long downhill slide through hedonism and imperialism on our way to the bottom. American society is destroying itself while our leaders manipulate our people and our government to enrich themselves.

Revolution...such a dangerous word nowadays, but an honest one. And it's coming. I firmly believe it. Even now, the Federal government is really pissing off the American people, and the American people have a hell of a lot of guns. Eventually, the government will do something so outrageous, so unbelievable, so infuriating that Americans will be fed up enough to do something about it. They'll try it through law and elections first, but will find themselves blocked by the Republocrats and they'll find out just how deeply that parasite has embedded itself into our nation.

Then they'll exercise the ultimate option of a patriot.

I firmly believe that by 2050, the United States of America will undergo either a second revolution or a have civil war.

You heard it here first.

I see the signs already. The sheep of this country are just starting to see just WHO is in charge, since they elected an oil man for president, and now oil is astronomically expensive...and that's just one sign and indication. The law being blatantly and openly rewritten to favor the rich in the form of "tax cuts," the systematic selling off of America to foreign interests, the destruction of the American middle class to create the Marxist system of the bourgeoise and the working class, the seeds of it are all being sown here and now for what comes in a few decades. This pattern has repeated itself in history enough for those of us who appreciate history to see what's coming. Bush was America's version of Louis XIV, Dowager Empress, or Tsar Nicolas I, the power figures that caused their governments' downfall in future years.

So, there it is. By 2050, America will either overthrow the Republocrats and return to a true government of fairness and equality, or we'll have a civil war over Republocrat control of America.

[boballab]

I spent the fourth watching the documnetary series called The Revolution on the history channel. After watching that you are struck by the differences between today and back then. in the 1760's and 1770's the richest men in the colonies put their necks on the line for a principle. George Washington who was arguably the richest man in the colonies at the time had everything to lose in the Revolution and basically nothing to gain. He rebelled on the principle of taxation without reprensentation and the Tax that set it off was a 3 cent tax per pound on tea. To him that was paltry and wouldn't effect him, but the principle behind it was everything. He risked his fortune, his family and his very life for eight years and lost the life of his last child for our freedom. Benjamin Franklin, who at the time rivaled Washington in wealth, was perhaps the most famous man in the western world and he turned his back on his last surviving son, a son that he was so close to he did everything with him, for our freedom. He risked everything traveling to France to try to get their support. Here was an old man, in poor health going on a very risky voyage with less then a 50% chance on success and he did it anyway.

Does the US today have problems? Yes, but if you knew how close this country almost failed before it even got started you would know there is still hope. Over the last 200 years political parties have come and gone. An example of this is the Federalist and the Whig parties in the late 1790's and early 1800's. The Democrat party has changed so much from its roots it no longer resembles the party Jefferson founded. The Republican party came out of no where to win the Presidency in 1860. The only thing we can take about political parties is they will change with time, how they change we do not know but change will come. I worry less about the person's party and more about the person running. Where will the next Washington, Lincoln, TR or FDR come from? Who knows, but as history has shown throughout US History when the need is great enough somehow, someway the next one shows up.

Oh Fel I think you are looking for Jefferson's "Every generation needs a new revolution."

Here is few more good Jefferson quotes:

If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour?

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants

[Fawks]

Damn! Did I open a can of worms, or What?!?

[expedient]

At a time when many are being detained or discredited in the US and other Western nations for expressing their opinions publicly or attempting peaceful protest, I admit I’m hesitant to post on these issues.

You might enjoy Gina Marie Wylie’s take on this in “The Far Side” over on http://www.beyondthefarhorizon.com/


We shouldn’t mistake representative government for true democracy. We the people. The only people really being listened to in the current system are those who can afford to pay lobbyists large sums of money to sway and woo Members of Congress and The Senate. Individuals have very little representation, most decisions are in favour of large concerns, such as corporations or foreign governments, willing to spend vast sums persuading politicians with biased reports, lavish banquets, promises of intent and offers of secure overpaid positions of employment after politics.

We could talk about what is wrong with Government forever and a day. How do we start fixing it?

1. Lottery Selection of representatives. A move to original democracy as practiced by the Athenians, in ancient Athens citizens were “elected” to government by a lottery system. Down with Career Politicians. Remove the Power mongers. Real locals represent district/regional issues. The end of 45% voter turnouts. Civic duty is rewarded by a pay grade well above average, as it is already.

2. Individual Representation Not Party Affiliations. Axe all parties. Vote with your own convictions, not to improve standing in Party hierarchy.

3. Anti-Compensation Laws. Ensure corporate donations of any kind are illegal with imprisonment and huge punative fines for the corporations, banishment from office and imprisonment for politicians, even after office. Corporations are already protected by their employees, partners, suppliers employees and customers representing their interests [see point 7].

4. High School Standardised Competency Tests. Independently audited standardized tests as part of GED to prove an understanding of the basic process of Government before appointment to office. Stop Lawyers, Doctors and similar having disproportionate representation.

5. Limited Overlapping Terms. Give new appointees a chance to “learn the ropes” with 3 months orientation followed by a year as a junior representative before moving to a senior representative position. All positions have limited terms so people won’t spend decades in office becoming jaded, institutionalized and become inured against change.

6. Promotion by Compentancy Approval Rating. Politicians move up the rungs of Government by doing a good job. Weighted marks by public and peers.

7. Repeal of Representation and Policies. Vote of no confidence in a petition by a minority percentage (say 10% local, 5% regional, 2% state, 1% national) followed by wider vote by a constituency two-thirds (i.e. 67%+) rule to remove a Representative or Policy/Law, for any reason. Let’s use some of this information age technology to improve interaction with the citizens.

8. Positions requiring qualifications such as Police Chiefs, Judges etc are offered up to a public vote against a choice of peers of similar station.

9. Make the Military and Police swear to protect the interests and welfare of the People, as guided by the administration. Not the dictates of the administration itself. Soldiers and Police Officers shouldn’t be afraid to perform their duty as their conscience dictates and without the direct interference of politicians. Politicians should not “plan” military actions, only request that objectives are met within the Rules of Engagement.


Essentially a hardening of the current Constitution against the loopholes currently being exploited. Would any of this work? Well, not in this simplistic form but it could with a little effort. Would politicians accept it? No. What do we do about corruption in the mainstream media? I have no idea, except to ignore them.


-- beginning of frustrated rant 2 --

The difference in the public outlook for the future in 1992 compared to what it’ll be in 2012 could be night and day (or should that be day and night). In 1992 the Cold War had ended and Free Trade was spreading, music was performed by anti-corporate grunge, techno and hip-hop breakouts wearing scruffy clothes. In 2012? Energy Crisis, Food shortages, Climate Change, Cost of Living rises, the Misrepresentation of Government, Global Political Instability and Isolationism, Population Pressures and Migrations, Central Identity Registers and Crime, Alien Invasion [ joke]. Music provided to you by careful analysis of youth fashion trends and precision marketing by your friendly corporate music industry conglomerates, performed by pretty young things, with added parental control and “golden era” compilations. We shall see...

The Government has had 40 years or more to tackle the problems of oil dependency, social inequality, world population growth and climate change to name a few. All of which have huge security issues associated with them. What has been their progress? Where has been their investment? Billions of dollars are spent each year on oil procurement and technology development. A new car model can cost two or three billion dollars, for incremental improvements. What is the plan for the future? With relatively miniscule investments in the alternatives it’s not surprising that they are lagging behind, there are no economies of scale and little incentive to solve mostly engineering issues. Energy efficiency in homes is appalling. As is reuse of resources (i.e. recycling). We cannot replace oil currently but we could drastically reduce dependency on it. Energy independence is the biggest security concern every nation faces. Our solution, so far, is to wage war...

-- rant 2 ends --


Al Steiner writes about a socialist version of these ideas in his “A Perfect World” and its prequel “Greenies” available at http://storiesonline.net/. Or see a number of published hardcopy authors.

[furry_wolf2001b]

Hey, lets make this into a spoiler thread, like the ones we have about Fels great works.

Let me start, so you know now as house prices are going down .
(some reasons; because surprise surprise banks are NOT your friend, and that loan you took needs to be paid back, twice.
Or economy is down so is the job market.)

So what you think the banks or others with allot of houses or such will do?
They will go "oh we have too many of them, lets bulldoze/burn 25-50% so prices go up again on the rest"...

Thats the way they think.
Thats what i belive annyway