Demon's Bane, Chapter 5 (Spoilers, obviously)

[Lochar]

$10,000 question: can Tarrin take the One's soul?

No, not as the way Tarrin gave himself the ability. He has to reach through a physcial connection back to that entity to grab it's soul. There was nothing written about him able to take it when he is literally AT the location of the soul.

Besides, if he tried that, he'd have the power of a whole domain turned on him. The Deva he's stealing souls from don't control that domain, it's just the pull of their brothers and sisters in arms that is trying to pull Tarrin in. Should he try to reach through a God's icon, he'd literally be reaching into a place where said God rules supreme. And if the icon is big enough, he'd be able to directly pull Tarrin through.

[J-Man5]

I just wonder what would happen if Tarrin was to use Deva and Demon powers simultaneously (e.g. both Demon and Deva teleport)...

1/2 Tarrin one way 1/2. Tarrin the other way. Seems like trying to drive a car with two steering wheels.

J-Man5

[Edengrave]

What a ride. I 've been reading quite a lot since the last update, and honestly none of what I've read can compete with Fel's writing. I loved the dialogues on this chapter. The action scened are usualy perfect, and leave me breathless, but the dialogues were very very well done.

I can remember some of the speculations for chap 4 and the ones before that, and seeing as most of it turned wrong, I am not sot sure about anything right now. so I'll just reply to some of the comments I read.

I disagree with Lochar on the DBZ syndrome thingy, and on the fact that this being the last book is a good thing. As far as I am concerned, The universe that Fel has built has a lot of potential for many many more stories; too bad he's only one man. Compared to Forgotten realms, Dragonlance, and all the other shared worlds books out there, the foundations of sennedar are at once much better done, more intricate, and more logical.
As for the DBZ thiny, it's mostly a question of taste. Its all about writing skills. No matter how well its done, some people dislike ubber powerful characters, and they are mostly right. It tends to oversimplyfy stories, and reduce possibilities down to: I am stronger therefore I beat you all up. end of the story. But if an author is good enough, it actually adds to the story and open it up. I think we all agree that in this particual case the author is good enough. In any fantasy setting once gods are involved as characters, power will be a factor anyway. but this is not about power. it has never been. here the power is just a tool it's not an end, and it does not define Tarrin, nor the story. Tarrin by himself is much more special that all the might he has accumulated and lost during this story.
one other thing. Tarrin has not grown in power. If anything, Powerwise he is weaker. It's his abilities that have increased. and I thing that is much more interesting. He's not more powerful than his adversaries, but that single ability to reach beyond and grasp soul amulets has them terrified.
Gods do not have soul amulets by the way. only demons and devas. but maybe he can reach inside a god and touch his Icon.
Having said all that, I must admit I LIKE powerful characters. that's one of the resaons I read scifi and fantasy. To see magic wielder and skilled fighters. or demi-gods. or telepaths, or psions, or enhanced people. And I like Tarrin being Powerfull! like? I love it! lol With gods like The one around, we need gods like Tarrin around.

The soul alumets will not corrupt him. we don't know for sure weither their influence grows after each use. But I doubt it will be a problem. he is just that type of person. he will break before he bends. unyielding. and besides all he has to do is find a way to make them aware of each other. and I think they will neutralize themselves. the only thing he has to worry about, is keeping them completely balanced. Also, he could use the All to fight them or destroy them. In an indirect way. especially the All of crossroads. If it can burn the mind and soul of a god. I can certainly burn off some measly influence on that mind. What I find even more interesting is his growth as a wizard. he is becoming very accomplished there.

[Lochar]

On the DBZ thing, I only mean it in Tarrin's case. Fel has stated he has ideas for writing a story set 300 years later in the Sennadar universe, so there is obviously room for growth.

I just meant that Tarrin himself is getting to the point where the only thing challenging is literally the strongest beings alive. Whether it's actual strength or abilities, Tarrin has even the middle category of advesaries locked down.

The soul alumets will not corrupt him. we don't know for sure weither their influence grows after each use.

I'm pretty sure that Mother Wynn told him that continued use of just the demon amulet would turn him into a Bodak, so that would prove that the influence grows stronger with each use. Otherwise he could just use them with impunity.

[Fiferguy]

Tarrin has not grown in power. If anything, Powerwise he is weaker.

Ah, young grasshopper, not all power is measured in the strength of one's arm...or sorcery...or whatever... Tarrin finally UNDERSTANDS what he his, and in that knowledge there is an infinite amount of power. We've seen it all over this series, and in life in general. Wizard magic is much like this in that the more knowledgable the wizard, the more powerful he or she is. Look at Phandebrass.

And even in the case of Spyder, Tarrin has already said that even she, with over 10,000 years of experience doesn't understand what Tarrin does. And in that understanding where true power lies.

Fifer

[Fel]

On the DBZ thing, I only mean it in Tarrin's case. Fel has stated he has ideas for writing a story set 300 years later in the Sennadar universe, so there is obviously room for growth.

I just meant that Tarrin himself is getting to the point where the only thing challenging is literally the strongest beings alive. Whether it's actual strength or abilities, Tarrin has even the middle category of advesaries locked down.

I'm fully aware of the escalation issues Lochar.

It's always been something of a delicate balancing act with Tarrin, because from the outset, he was always meant to be "a step above" just about everyone else. He was an exceptional individual called upon to perform an exceptional task, something that nobody else could do.

Part of the issue for me has always been giving Tarrin room to grow, to become stronger, to rise up to meet the challenge, without turning him into the Terminator.

Demon's Bane was in itself a fell swoop to ensure that doesn't happen. I made sure to keep him in check, prevent him from taking it over that edge, by killing him off, putting shackles on him, and giving him a different set of tools by which to accomplish his goal.

If you haven't noticed, Demon's Bane hasn't been about pure power, the way the Firestaff series was. In Demon's Bane, it's about how Tarrin works with what he has, and also it's a journey about him coming to truly understand what he is, and reach his full potential...a full potential that, surprisingly, isn't about ultimate power. But I'll save that for the book.

And as has always been my method with the Firestaff books, it's also about Tarrin growing, be it in power, age, or character. I can promise that Tarrin is going to do lots of growing during the course of Demon's Bane, and when it's all said and done, he'll finally realize his full potential and become what he was meant to become.

Without becoming the Terminator.

[Fiferguy]

Now this is simply not fair...first you tease us in the book itself...then you tease us here... That's just mean...

I do have to say though, for the love of God don't stop writing!

[Lochar]

Now this is simply not fair...first you tease us in the book itself...then you tease us here... That's just mean...

I do have to say though, for the love of God don't stop writing!

Life's not fair, but here I agree with you.

Damn teasers. *grin*

[Fiferguy]

-What's Life?
-It's a cereal.
-Where can I get it?
-Grocery store.
-I don't have any money.
-That's tough.
-What's tough?
-Life.
-What's Life?
-It's a cereal.
repeat ad infinitum

[afrigeek]

Yes, but the ability of the Mi'Shara Tarrin, or at least the only ability we've seen, deals with magical ability. Also, as long as Tarrin is a technical god, he isn't the Mi'Shara.

So once he drops the divine spark and becomes a mortal Mi'Shara again, he might be able to drop off the corruption, just not yet.

How does he drop the divine spark when his very soul is divine now? Besides, wasn't it his Mi'Sharic abilities to exceed his limitations that allowed him to create an entire weave on Pyrosia? He was still technically a god even then. I remember reading that Mi'Shara can change the rules...so I highly doubt that it only deals with magical ability otherwise then spyder would not have been able to imprison Val in his icon. That certianly wasn't about magical ability.

[Lochar]

Yes, but the ability of the Mi'Shara Tarrin, or at least the only ability we've seen, deals with magical ability. Also, as long as Tarrin is a technical god, he isn't the Mi'Shara.

So once he drops the divine spark and becomes a mortal Mi'Shara again, he might be able to drop off the corruption, just not yet.

How does he drop the divine spark when his very soul is divine now? Besides, wasn't it his Mi'Sharic abilities to exceed his limitations that allowed him to create an entire weave on Pyrosia? He was still technically a god even then. I remember reading that Mi'Shara can change the rules...so I highly doubt that it only deals with magical ability otherwise then spyder would not have been able to imprison Val in his icon. That certianly wasn't about magical ability.

His soul is divine because of the True Faith he's inspired in Dolanna. Just like Dragor is a mortal brought to Godhood by faith of the mortals, so is Tarrin, he just only has one worshipper.

And Tarrin created the Weave on Pyrosia as a mortal. He surrendered ALL of the firestaff godly powers into his sword, and didn't become a Younger God until after his death from creating the Weave.

[afrigeek]

He did surrender ALL his firestaff godly powers into the sword but that did not change the very nature of his soul which is the soul of a God. He was always a mortal even with the firestaff godly powers which is why he was being called the mortal god. he could be killed!

[Lochar]

He did surrender ALL his firestaff godly powers into the sword but that did not change the very nature of his soul which is the soul of a God. He was always a mortal even with the firestaff godly powers which is why he was being called the mortal god. he could be killed!

He was and is called the Mortal God yes because he can truly die, but that is because he doesn't have a home plane, like 99.9% of the rest of the Gods. At first, it was because as a Firestaff God, his power was focused completely in the mortal world. Now, it's either because he doesn't have enough followers to make a claim for a domain, or he subconciously or maybe even conciously chose to still be focused in the mortal world.

When he surrendered all of his godly power to the sword, for that moment he became completely mortal. No divine soul or anything. The act of killing himself to create the Weave on Pyrosia gave Dolanna True Faith in him, otherwise he'd be a normal soul in Crossroads, not the minor Godling he was. And Niami probably could have found him immeditatly, since he was supposed to be able to go to her home once he died like that.


Off topic, but speaking of which, Fel where is Niami's domain? What plane?

[Edengrave]

I agree with Afrigeek. Once Tarrin went through the Firestaff ascension, his soul was transformed into a divine soul. And an Elder god soul at that. In my mind, nothing short of the God of gods can undo that.

Lochar, I thought I would reply to your post with my views that are a bit different:

He is mortal because he can die, true. and he did die. but I think it's more exact to say that he is mortal because his divine soul is all within a mortal shell and limited to the mind of a mortal. something no god would dare to try, and indeed something I doubt they could do since Tarrin was able to achieve it through the intermediary of Niami only by being originaly mortal in the first place, and by surviving the destruction of his icon something no god did before him.
just semantics no doubt but his soul can't die so to speak. And to get rid of Tarrin, just like all the other gods, you have to destroy his soul. Its just easier to accomplish in his case, since his soul is in such a vulnerable position.

So I don't think him not having a home plane goes into it. its just a consequence not a cause. Just like the little power he had managed to keep being focused in the mortal world was another consequence. without a divine mind, it can't be otherwise. Firestaff gods are not so limited. And neither was his sword for that matter.
The power and abilities he has now are very useful. and that was done thanx to him gaining a true follower. If others had true faith in him his power would increase seriously. As a matter of fact, he could ascend again this way, and once ascended, could regain his original power too. scary huh?
Speaking of home planes are we sure firestaff gods don't have home planes? We know they have Aspects. Seeing where the One home plane is located, it would stand to reason, that where your plane is depend on your aspect??? still I am very interested in knowing where Niami home plane is too. It would be a shame for Tarrin not to visit since he has the chance. I seem to remember that the home planes of Elder gods from worlds like Sennadar were off limit though for some reason.

[Shadowhawk]

Well, I'd rather think that Tarrin was Demigod because he had mortal coil (body), mortal mind, divine soul and divine powers. Powers were manifested in wings and in Sword of Fire. I think that after transferring all the divine powers to sword and breaking them Tarrin rescinded divine powers... but I think he had still divine/Firestaff soul. But I might be mistaken.

Why after death he is still Mortal God and not extremely weak Younger God (with one True Follower)... perhaps it has something to do with his Firestaff soul.