General Question about Sennadar...

[Hearly]

Ok, Sennadar is a "prime" plane, meaning it's probably existed longer than other plans.......

Now my Question... For all we have Info wise, it seems that Sennadar has existed for around 15-20 thousand years.. (guessing a bit here... follow the logic...)

Ok Spyder was the First Sorcerer.. (sui'kun) and she is around 10,000 years old, Meaning before she existed there was no magic?

Now Spyder was part of one of the First 4 races, Hence there cannot be much history before her that is where I'm getting the 15-20k...

Now following my reasoning, why is a Prime Plane only 15-20k old? shouldn't it be much much older? Or did the GoG Restart everything 15-20k ago?

I'm not sure if this is something Fel left in for someone to discover, or if it's just the way it is....

[Lunchbox]

the plane itself existed forever, sennadar was created when ayise(sp) got bored and decided to make something to govern over, then she created sennadar, then created the elder gods to govern the other aspects of a planet, the younger gods were created when people had a need for a god

[Hearly]

the plane itself existed forever, sennadar was created when ayise(sp) got bored and decided to make something to govern over, then she created sennadar, then created the elder gods to govern the other aspects of a planet, the younger gods were created when people had a need for a god

Did it? No where did it say in any story, that it existed forever... and if it did, why did she only do something with it 15-20k years ago?

I mean it could just be Fel had not thought about it, and it's just the way it is, OR maybe there is something behind why Sennadar has only existed for 15-20k years...

Also 2nd question I posed but didn't clarify.. Was there magic before Spyder?

[Lunchbox]

What i meant was that Fel didnt specify and that we have no way to even speculate how long the plane existed. About your second question, I guess there was no magic, but there was a weave

[Hearly]

What i meant was that Fel didnt specify and that we have no way to even speculate how long the plane existed. About your second question, I guess there was no magic, but there was a weave

There couldn't be a weave until Spyder was born, she was the first, without any Sukiun(sp?) there cannot be a weave...

[Stealth_Dragon]

There couldn't be a weave until Spyder was born, she was the first, without any Sukiun(sp?) there cannot be a weave...

I don't think Fel ever specified that she was the first Sui-Kun he only said she was the first to cross over so it could be that there was a rotation of sui-kun before hand

[Hearly]

There couldn't be a weave until Spyder was born, she was the first, without any Sukiun(sp?) there cannot be a weave...

I don't think Fel ever specified that she was the first Sui-Kun he only said she was the first to cross over so it could be that there was a rotation of sui-kun before hand

Actually, I believe Niami told him That Spyder was the first Sui-kin, looking for the chapter... will edit and link it..

Edit: sigh found it finally..

http://sennadar.plebian.net/book5/weave07.htm

In it, it implys there were Sorcerer's before Spyder, but how could there be any without the Weave? Each Sui-kin powers a Conduct, etc...

[Lochar]

Ok, Sennadar is a "prime" plane, meaning it's probably existed longer than other plans.......

Now my Question... For all we have Info wise, it seems that Sennadar has existed for around 15-20 thousand years.. (guessing a bit here... follow the logic...)

Ok Spyder was the First Sorcerer.. (sui'kun) and she is around 10,000 years old, Meaning before she existed there was no magic?

Now Spyder was part of one of the First 4 races, Hence there cannot be much history before her that is where I'm getting the 15-20k...

Now following my reasoning, why is a Prime Plane only 15-20k old? shouldn't it be much much older? Or did the GoG Restart everything 15-20k ago?

I'm not sure if this is something Fel left in for someone to discover, or if it's just the way it is....

Spyder was not the first Sorcerer. She was the first one to go over to the Weavespinner level of power though.

Spyder was not an elf, she was an Urzani. One of the two decendant races from the elves. Her people killed their lighter skinned sibling race.

The firestaff has only been around 10k years certainly, but there was a great deal of time before then. Once Aiyse created Sennadar, everything was good, but dull. They created the elves to make Sennadar go further. After a while, the elves hit a 'ceiling' because they weren't being pushed any further. Then they created humans, which forced the elves to go further to keep up with the humans. Both of those probably took several thousands of years. Then you have to wait many more centuries until the Elves broke up into two races. Then the war between those races, then the Urzani taking control of the rest of Sennadar. Then a thousand or so years later, Spyder takes the throne, gives it up, and becomes a Weavespinner.

I'd guess at least 40k+. Remember, everything was originally created, not evolved, so time took less. And we don't know how long it was before Aiyse decided she wanted sentient races on Sennadar, so we don't know how long the world sat before ANY recorded memory.

[Lochar]

In it, it implys there were Sorcerer's before Spyder, but how could there be any without the Weave? Each Sui-kin powers a Conduct, etc...

The Sui'kun power the major Conduit yes, but all Sorcerers draw some of the power out of the Heart. A Sui'kun just enables a heck of a lot more power. Remember when Tarrin was working his way towards the Desert of Swirling Sands? He stood in a smaller Conduit. That wasn't a Sui'kun powered Conduit, so there were probably very small ones even before then.

[Hearly]

In it, it implys there were Sorcerer's before Spyder, but how could there be any without the Weave? Each Sui-kin powers a Conduct, etc...

The Sui'kun power the major Conduit yes, but all Sorcerers draw some of the power out of the Heart. A Sui'kun just enables a heck of a lot more power. Remember when Tarrin was working his way towards the Desert of Swirling Sands? He stood in a smaller Conduit. That wasn't a Sui'kun powered Conduit, so there were probably very small ones even before then.

I'm not so sure about that, From what was implied, the only reason there were still 2 towers was because Spyder didn't die, if she would have the weave would have been totally destroyed as all the Sui-kin's would have died.

[Lochar]

Then you're saying that all magic originally depended on Spyder's life as well as on Niami. Priest magic requires the Weave, and there had to be Priests before Spyder was born.

[Shadowhawk]

The Sui'kun power the major Conduit yes, but all Sorcerers draw some of the power out of the Heart. A Sui'kun just enables a heck of a lot more power. Remember when Tarrin was working his way towards the Desert of Swirling Sands? He stood in a smaller Conduit. That wasn't a Sui'kun powered Conduit, so there were probably very small ones even before then.

I'm not so sure about that, From what was implied, the only reason there were still 2 towers was because Spyder didn't die, if she would have the weave would have been totally destroyed as all the Sui-kin's would have died.

All Towers had Sui'Kun level Conduit in them.

Without Spyder the level of magic was probably even less than before the births of Tarrin and the next Sui'Kuns to be. But there was probably some magic.

[Fel]

Lol, I hoped i'd never have to explain this...it's complicated.

There WAS magic before Spyder, and there WAS a Weave before Spyder. BUT, the magic that existed before Spyder was the same as you'd find in other prime material planes. Stronger, yes. With more potential, yes. With many many more people able to use it, yes. But there was a "glass ceiling" that limited just how much power could be brought to bear. The Weave was the hammer that broke this glass ceiling.

The Weave was created with the first four sentient races; elves, humans, dwarves, and goblins. It was tied to them in such a way that the power of magic would always depend on the population of those who could use it...the Sorcerers. But there was no sui'kun at first, because:

THE SENTIENT RACES WERE NOT YET READY TO HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF USING THAT POWER.

Remember, they started as cavemen...would you REALLY want to put that kind of raw magical power in the hands of a caveman?

Niami, and the other Elder Gods for that matter, thought it best to let the sentient races mature, to develop, before handing them that particular Pandora's Box.

After a few dozen millenia, after civilization had taken hold and the basic level of intelligence of at least 3 of those 4 races had reached what the gods felt was a reasonable level, Niami began setting into motion the events that would lead to the first sui'kun...Spyder.

Spyder was the first Sui'Kun. Spyder represents Sennadar's magical power...literally. When she was born, the laws of magic on Sennadar were changed, breaking the glass ceiling and making it possible for magicians of all 4 orders to reach into magic that had, to that point, been denied to them. Just as the birth of each new sui'kun during the Firestaff series raised the level of magic that could be used, Spyder represents that core threshold that separates Sennadar from other material planes.

And yes, the Weave can exist without sui'kun, so long as there were Sorcerers alive to preserve it. But without sui'kun, the Weave has very little power.

If some miraculous disaster happened and all the sui'kun died, then the Weave WOULD be destroyed. It wouldn't be able to survive that kind of trauma. But Niami could rebuild it, as long as there were Sorcerers alive to serve as the heart that caused the power to flow through the strands. This new Weave wouldn't be able to sustain any kind of significant magic, for a VERY long time, until it was strong enough to do so and a new sui'kun was born to take on the burden of being the prime focus.

But Niami could rebuild it. It would take a very, very long time, but it could be done.

As to the age of Sennadar:

Hate to shock ya, but Sennadar is MUCH YOUNGER than most other Primes. The primes closest to the Core are the NEWEST planes. Remember my references to those "true ancients" WAY back in book 1 of the Firestaff series, and those cities that legend said were falling into ruin long before humans moved out of caves? They weren't the Sha'Kar, and they weren't the First Races either. They were from another plane, and they vanished because the Elder Gods wiped them out. They were from a much older plane...or it had been up until that point.

They came to Sennadar because their own plane was destroyed. Those refugees that came to Sennadar were also wiped out, because of two reasons; they were contaminating the progress of the natives and disrupting the intent of the Elder Gods for the plane (they were much more advanced), and they brought something with them that the Elder Gods did NOT want on Sennadar.

Sennadar's recorded history goes back about 20,000 years. Pre-recorded history goes back about 50,000 years more.

[Lochar]

and they brought something with them that the Elder Gods did NOT want on Sennadar.

I hope it wasn't the Firestaff. Probably though. They were refugees from another plane. The Firestaff just followed them through the portal away from the imploding Plane.

[Lunchbox]

the firestaff was created by the urzani, remember that urzani created circles of over 100 circles. that is a TON of power