Keeping Score (Or the Gods on Tarrin's Side)

[Phantom]

Ok this Seems Kind of Simple question  but if you start thinking about it.

Really it's not...as another online story is so fond of saying

"God is in the Detail's"    

( Appoligies to <TERB> for it's use here )



God's we know actively support Tarrin

Niami, goddess of magic; Elder God

Fara'Nae, goddess of the Selani;

Neme, goddess of women, patron of Amazar;

Kikkalli, goddess of the seas, weather, sailing, the stars, and navigation, leader of the Wikuni pantheon of 9 gods, primary patron of the Wikuni;

Karas, god of law (patron of Sulasia);

Dallstad, god of strength (patron of Ungardt);

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I don't know just where to classify this one

Clangeddin, one of  the gods of the Duthak;

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Other God's Who seem to possibly like or Respect Tarrin for some reason or another

Ahiriya, goddess of fire; Elder God

Pythorras, god of honor and duty, leader of the 3 gods of the Vendari pantheon, primary patron of the Vendari;

Shaervan, god of the Aeradalla;

Dakkii, goddess of death ("good" people); Elder God

Dakkuu, god of death ("evil" people); Elder God

=================

God's that it seems could maybe support, or could have something to gain from supporting Tarrin

Azur, god of Arcane magic, patron of Wizards;

Denthar, god of knowledge, patron of sages and some Wizards;

Domammon, god of the moons; {if there were ever to be God for the Were Races I seriously thing this would be the one... they after all seem to worship this god in their own ways already (( even if they don't know it)) }


Any others anyone can think of ?


One thing that Struck me is if Niami and Ahiriya were to Stand united behind Tarrin  the Elder Gods would be forced to concede...  with holding Magic from the world is one thing  but the Threat of with holding Fire is Devastating... and Ayise  and the other gods would be forced to allow Tarrin to return and remain on Sennadar

Ok so what does everone else think?  


Which Gods will stand with Tarrin ?    


Which will stand against him ?  >:(




Phantom

[Shadowhawk]

One thing that Struck me is if Niami and Ahiriya were to stand united behind Tarrin  the Elder Gods would be forced to concede...  with holding Magic from the world is one thing  but the Threat of with holding Fire is Devastating... and Ayise  and the other gods would be forced to allow Tarrin to return and remain on Sennadar.

Ahiriya, Elder Goddes of fire etc., cannot withold Fire, as it would upset the Balance. The only one of Elder Gods whose realm isn't required to uphold Balance - but is very important nevertheless - is Niami, Goddes of Magic/Weave.

[Greymist]

Never happen, what Niami is doing at the moment is not disrupting the balance.

First Ahiriya would never withhold fire as it would disrupt the balance and that is what she was created to do, keep the balance, Second her mother would possibly kill her if she tried.

Edit: God damn it, you watch the forum too much, I wanted to answer first Shadowhawk

[Phantom]

Ahiriya, Elder Goddes of fire etc., cannot withold Fire, as it would upset the Balance. The only one of Elder Gods whose realm isn't required to uphold Balance - but is very important nevertheless - is Niami, Goddes of Magic/Weave.

I never said Ahiriya, would  

But just the Threat of with holding it could be enough...

the other God's would have to Give in  for the sake of not upsetting the balance.

The thought of not giving in would be too grave to chance it

Just imagine a world without Fire...

Phantom

[Shadowhawk]

But just the Threat of with holding it could be enough...

But anyone would know that is empty threat. Upholding Balance binds Elder Gods. Besides, AllMother would take immediate steps...

[Phantom]

Never happen, what Niami is doing at the moment is not disrupting the balance.

First Ahiriya would never withhold fire as it would disrupt the balance and that is what she was created to do, keep the balance, Second her mother would possibly kill her if she tried.

She could threaten to do it   Knowing full well the other Gods would be forced to cave in   and alow Tarrin to return..


Ayise Couldn't kill her,  Wouldn't happen,   couldn't happen... think for a min,  Why the statement is true.

All of the Elder Gods are equal...

It's a Catch 22 situation

Ayise set it up that way she gave them each part of her self.....and granted them dominion over their part of the world...  Niami Controls all magic
even Ayise can't take that power away from her or she couldn't do what she's doing.. as she could be overridden.

Having said that Ayise couldn't kill Ahiriya as Fire would be lost to the world.
If that happend  it would upset the ballance.

Also the power Ayise would have to use against Ahiriya would cause the distruction of Sennadar again destroying the balance.

Remember  Ahiriya is a God an Elder God  and not a mortal...  
Ayise can't kill her with just a thought or word...
it will take power and a will to use that power.
the reason they used tarrin aginst Val in the first place.

Told you thinking about it wouldn't be simple didn't i <G>





Phantom

[Phantom]

But anyone would know that is empty threat. Upholding Balance binds Elder Gods. Besides, AllMother would take immediate steps...

Read my other post  what steps can she take ?
anything she does would upset the balance and thats
what she would be trying to prevent in the first place. <G>



Phantom

[J-Man5]

Since she controls all Fire.  She could just reduce it's effects. How about reducing the capability of fire to heat metals.  No more boiling water in pots or forging iron and such.  This would not remove fire but change its effects for humans mostly.  

I think Phantom may have something here.  Niami should be talking with Ahiriya.

J-Man5

[Phantom]

Ok so no one get's the wrong idea.

Possible Spoilers

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Here's my thought's

Niami if she can enlist the right god Namely Ahiriya then just like Tarrin's fight with the One and the Demonlord.  

She's all ready won the fight.
The other God's just wouldn't know it yet

1. Ahiriya dosen't have to do anything to disrupt the balance  mearly the threat of that possibility would be enough to get what she wanted from the other God's.

2. Boom thats it in a nut shell really

The great equalizer in all of this is "The Balance" take away the Balance and it couldn't happen.

But because they are Elder Gods they are equal's in power and the Balance is so important.
That creates the right set of conditions for what could happen.

I don't think it would be quite as big a problem if it were
any of the other God's except for maybe Ayise or Shellar  

Saltemis  
T'Kya  
Darrian
Dakkii  
Dakkuu
Leia,
it's possible the would could get along for a very short while with out these gods as long as it was a short time..


Niami, wouldn't upset the balance.
But she could/is upsetting the Younger gods  and her withholding magic could cause several of them to cease to exist with out it. (In time)

so we have the following conditions

1. Elder Gods
2. Not Mortal (Can't be killed with a word or thought)
3. All are Equal in power
4. The Balance
5. If one of them were killed the primal natural force they are responsible for maintaining would be lost to Sennadar.
6. It would take a more experienced or 2 or more gods combining forces to kill another elder god. ( Down side here is the Power expended would lay waste to all of Sennadar )

So theres the problem all laid out.  it all comes back to The balance... thats the Key and the Bane of it

so once again we ask you Who is on Tarrins Side..
and what are they willing to do.



Phantom

[Phantom]

Since she controls all Fire. She could just reduce it's effects. How about reducing the capability of fire to heat metals. No more boiling water in pots or forging iron and such. This would not remove fire but change its effects for humans mostly.

I think Phantom may have something here. Niami should be talking with Ahiriya.

J-Man5

Humm i hadn't considered that angle

Like maybe not allowing candles to burn would be an attention getter.

No more Candles burning in the house's of worship or at the gods alters.. that would get them to notice quick
and would show any followers of that God that another God wasn't very happy with their God.

You may have something there  and it wouldn't seem to upset the balance much if at all....




Phantom

[Phantom]

Maybe we can form the TLO

The Tarrin Liberation Organization  8)

Humm another thought  Tarrin is Friends or Family with
The Leaders of most of Sennadar maybe they could
have their subjects Petition their God or Gods to help Tarrin.....

A one Sennadar United for Tarrin Movement or something <G>



Phantom
(just taking a Silly Withdrawl moment)

[J-Man5]

Maybe we can form the TLO

The Tarrin Liberation Organization  8)

Humm another thought  Tarrin is Friends or Family with
The Leaders of most of Sennadar maybe they could
have their subjects Petition their God or Gods to help Tarrin.....

A one Sennadar United for Tarrin Movement or something <G>



Phantom
(just taking a Silly Withdrawl moment)

How about getting Amnesty International involved.  The could change their name to Amnesty Interdimensional.  Working to help those whose right have been trampled on in any dimension!!!!

J-Man5  (also having Silly Withdrawal moment)

[Calimbor]

I cant see this scenario happening.

Ahiriya wouldnt threaten to withhold fire simply because she is bound by rules to uphold the balance. So even if she somehow garnered enough affection for Tarrin to make that empty threat, it wouldnt do much good.

On the issue of Ayise not being able to kill AhiriyaI seem to recall somewhere in the first series that, when they found out that Val had almost equal power as an elder god, Ayise attempted to destroy Val by taking back the life she had bestowed upon him in the first place.

That it couldnt be done, is not a cane of worm Im willing to open up right now, but this seem to hint at that Ayise can take back what ever she creates, and seeing as she did create the other 9 or 8 elder gods (Im not sure which is the right, because one place it states that Aysie was the first and created the other nine, but in another book it is said that Aysie and Shellar together in a holy joining created the other eight elder gods) one would suspect that she COULD kill Ahiriya if she really had to and possible create another goddess/god to watch over fire.

Im not too sure about the issue of Aysie being able to kill Ahiriya, but I just cant see Ahiriya threaten to compromise the balance.

[Dravok]

This is bad.  If this is what happens after only a couple weeks without anything new, I don't want to know what you people will be like after a couple months.

Here's a suggestion:  Go outside!  Oh, wait; there's that annoying thing called 'The Sun' out there...  I guess you'll have to start a 12 step program to wean you off of Fel's writing, either that or just read it all again, like I have (repeatedly).

[Fel]

Ayise can kill absolutely anyone on Sennadar with a thought who is native to that world.

INCLUDING the other Elder Gods.  She created them, she can destroy them.

The only ones she can't kill are creatures who originated from other planes of existence and creations of the Firestaff.  Once it changes them, they cease being a child of Ayise, and become a child of the Firestaff.  Since she did not create them, she cannot destroy them.

The idea that Ahiriya would somehow rebel against Ayise and stand with Niami is gallant, but completely infeasible.  The INSTANT that Ahiriya disrupted the Balance, Ayise would wipe her out of existence and replace her with a new Elder God.

And because everyone knows that, even Ahiriya, it makes threatening to do it utterly moot.

The only god that can get away with openly defying Ayise is Niami, because what she represents isn't absolutely critical to the operation of the universe.  The world can get along fine without magic.

Niami would also be the most dangerous god for Ayise to kill.  She IS the Weave.  Kill her, and the Weave ceases to exist.  Needless to say, this is something that Ayise would do only as an absolute last resort, as it would result in utter chaos in the mortal world, and would also result in chaos in the pantheon as the priests of the Younger Gods lost all their powers.

That's how Niami is getting away with what she's doing.  Ayise can't kill her without risking completely throwing the mortals into chaos, and risking serious disruption of the divine order.  She's in a unique position, using the fact that she's expendable to the Balance but vital in other ways as a club to beat her mother over the head to get her own way.