Assimilation - Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

[Mad Monk]

I don't know if people actually want me to put the links I do on here, but anyway, here goes:

Some videos of Emus http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/emu-drom ... hollandiae

Black tailed Kite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Kite

Wallaby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallaby

Spoiler

Show

Raisha's experiences were something I actually witnessed during my travels in Australia. I had a burger stolen from my plate by a kite, and I saw a couple try to eat lunch while surrounded by two emus - they didn't even manage to get a bite

The first picture Lt Rivi displayed http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... f_mair.jpg

The second Picture Lt Rivi displayed http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... er_165.jpg

Effects of alcohol poisoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-term ... of_alcohol
Seriously, don't get into drinking contests where volume of alcohol is the challenge - the alcohol in your system will still be increasing for hours yet, unless you have some of the Faey medicine. If you must get into a drinking contest, have it as a speed thing with a limit on how much to drink.

Images of alcohol poisoning - some are only funny if its not you. There are lots of fun things your "mates" will do to you while you're drunk.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en ... CCYQsAQwBA

[zedd]

mmm what the fey officer did is probably very illegal on earth. One of the promises made by Jason was that the fey wouldn't invade the mind of anyone. I know she was trying to help him, but without his consent it's still a violation. beside that note the only other thing not positive is that the chapter is too short.

I wonder with which Fey he will end up dating

Good work

[Ledsmith]

If JL, as Matty's first, had agreed to the terms of the punishment, including the mind meddling, with Rivi it is possible that the alteration to Matty's mind is legal.

[Mad Monk]

mmm what the fey officer did is probably very illegal on earth. One of the promises made by Jason was that the fey wouldn't invade the mind of anyone. I know she was trying to help him, but without his consent it's still a violation. beside that note the only other thing not positive is that the chapter is too short.

I wonder with which Fey he will end up dating

Good work

Thanks for the feedback.

Jason did say that the Faey would not invade the minds of anyone to his people in Charleston, while he was leading the rebellion and Kumi and her doctors and friends arrived. During the rebellion, he had to build trust between the Faey and the humans.

He did not repeat this to the population at large during his announcement that he was taking charge of the Earth. (Chapter 20 of Subjugation)

I will say this right now. If anyone has any negative experience with a worker or noble from the house of Suralle, I want you to report this incident to a Marine barracks or your local government immediately. I will not tolerate any mistreatment of our planet or our people by the Suralles, and it will fall upon you, the people of Earth, to help the Imperial Marines to watch the Suralles and make sure they keep their word.

To a large extent, it would be almost impossible for the marines to do their duties as peacekeepers without use of their talent. Without the free use of their talent, they would be in a similar position to the American, British and other western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. If it was easy to know who was taliban / insurgent / carrying a suicide bomb, the "war on Terror" could be over relatively quickly and with a lot less suffering all round.

[zedd]

To a large extent, it would be almost impossible for the marines to do their duties as peacekeepers without use of their talent. Without the free use of their talent, they would be in a similar position to the American, British and other western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. If it was easy to know who was taliban / insurgent / carrying a suicide bomb, the "war on Terror" could be over relatively quickly and with a lot less suffering all round.

Very good point. You are absolutely right.

[ANTIcarrot]

He did not repeat this to the population at large during his announcement that he was taking charge of the Earth.

But he did say quite publically that the workers on the farm would now be paid - implying that Trillane hadn't been paying them up until now. If being forced to work (against your will, at gun point, for years at a time, with no end in sight) without pay isn't slavery - then what definition of slavery does the Imperium use? Wouldn't it be common knowledge that Trillane did engage in slavery, and that neither the Imperial Marines, nor the Empress lifted a finger to stop them until after Jason started speaking up about a seperate slave trade? And shouldn't the marines in this story know this?

I'm afraid I have to agree with Zedd. This looks very much like performing medical procedures, possibly without a license, and definately without patient consent, or court paperwork. Would that really be legal on Draconis? Or would they actually be in a lot of trouble if they got caught?

And if they're going to start changing memmories anytime it's convenient for them, how are they different from House Trillane? Or Ingsoc for that matter.

[Mad Monk]

He did not repeat this to the population at large during his announcement that he was taking charge of the Earth.

But he did say quite publically that the workers on the farm would now be paid - implying that Trillane hadn't been paying them up until now. If being forced to work (against your will, at gun point, for years at a time, with no end in sight) without pay isn't slavery - then what definition of slavery does the Imperium use? Wouldn't it be common knowledge that Trillane did engage in slavery, and that neither the Imperial Marines, nor the Empress lifted a finger to stop them until after Jason started speaking up about a seperate slave trade? And shouldn't the marines in this story know this?

The definitions used for slavery have varied a great deal over time. In Roman and Greek societies they could be valued parts of the household. We are writing within Fel's universe, so if he hasn't used this arguement, then I am reluctant to. It could be that in the Imperium, it is only considered slavery if you buy and sell citizens. Forced unpaid labour could be classed as taxes.

To use an example here on Earth which exists now. In the USA, prisoners have to work for 25 cents an hour. If they do not work, they are put in solitary confinement.

the federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.

This enables the USA to compete with China and Mexico in these fields, in spite of labour costs being theoretically much higher in the USA.

Full article here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=8289

Working for 25 cent an hour could also be classed as slave labour. Prisoners have to be paid, because if the weren't, they would be classed as slaves. So they are paid next to nothing.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Zedd. This looks very much like performing medical procedures, possibly without a license, and definately without patient consent, or court paperwork. Would that really be legal on Draconis? Or would they actually be in a lot of trouble if they got caught?

And if they're going to start changing memmories anytime it's convenient for them, how are they different from House Trillane? Or Ingsoc for that matter.

I'm going to say that she did this with good intentions (We know where that pathway leads). I would also say that there exists no legal barrier to her doing that. There may eventually be a Terran "Bill of Telepathic Rights", but it is a way away, and research into Terran's minds and cures for mental conditions was not published by the Trillanes before they quit the planet.

[ANTIcarrot]

It could be that in the Imperium, it is only considered slavery if you buy and sell citizens.

True, but this still means that all the 'western' humans in the story will almost certainly think the farm system was slavery. Which might be a source of amusing character conflict with the Faey. Seeing how a lot of westerners also view things like conscription as slavery... "Oh you liberal humans with your funny ideas."

To use an example here on Earth which exists now. In the USA, prisoners have to work for 25 cents an hour. If they do not work, they are put in solitary confinement. [examples snipped]

You know, that actually explains a few things I've noticed about American domestic goods.

I would also say that there exists no legal barrier to her doing that.

<shrug> Personally I would have thought the Imperial Medical Service (or whatever its called) might strongly object to amateurs tresspassing in their territory. But anyhow...

[Mad Monk]

It could be that in the Imperium, it is only considered slavery if you buy and sell citizens.

True, but this still means that all the 'western' humans in the story will almost certainly think the farm system was slavery. Which might be a source of amusing character conflict with the Faey. Seeing how a lot of westerners also view things like conscription as slavery... "Oh you liberal humans with your funny ideas."

Well Matty has been quite vocal on that score already

The Wikipedia article on slavery is quite interesting, especially the sections on Contemporary slavery and Current situation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

Also check out the "Other uses of the term" - Not only is conscription mentioned, but also if you pay taxes you are a slave, and if you have a pet you are a slave owner!

I would also say that there exists no legal barrier to her doing that.

<shrug> Personally I would have thought the Imperial Medical Service (or whatever its called) might strongly object to amateurs tresspassing in their territory. But anyhow...

I suspect that the Faey medical service are less worried about people poaching on their territory than Earth doctors. Here surgeons, general practitioners, specialists, pharmacists, nurses and a whole slew of therapists each has their trade body and scream when someone oversteps the line into their territory. A lot of that is professional jealousy and protectionism. The Faey medical service is one body, who are dedicated to serve. Remember how they evolved out of the saishain. Petty bickering over who does what is beneath them, as long as the patient is healed.

[dellstart]

It could be that in the Imperium, it is only considered slavery if you buy and sell citizens.

True, but this still means that all the 'western' humans in the story will almost certainly think the farm system was slavery. Which might be a source of amusing character conflict with the Faey. Seeing how a lot of westerners also view things like conscription as slavery... "Oh you liberal humans with your funny ideas."

Well Matty has been quite vocal on that score already

The Wikipedia article on slavery is quite interesting, especially the sections on Contemporary slavery and Current situation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

Also check out the "Other uses of the term" - Not only is conscription mentioned, but also if you pay taxes you are a slave, and if you have a pet you are a slave owner!

I would also say that there exists no legal barrier to her doing that.

<shrug> Personally I would have thought the Imperial Medical Service (or whatever its called) might strongly object to amateurs tresspassing in their territory. But anyhow...

I suspect that the Faey medical service are less worried about people poaching on their territory than Earth doctors. Here surgeons, general practitioners, specialists, pharmacists, nurses and a whole slew of therapists each has their trade body and scream when someone oversteps the line into their territory. A lot of that is professional jealousy and protectionism. The Faey medical service is one body, who are dedicated to serve. Remember how they evolved out of the saishain. Petty bickering over who does what is beneath them, as long as the patient is healed.

waves the flag for MM and gives him the thumbs up !

[Fel]

As far as the Imperium's view of slavery goes, they wouldn't consider forced farm work to be slavery, because terms of indentured, involuntary service is part of their system (i.e., conscription). Imperial law states that forced indenturement can be done without paying the indentured as long as all the indentured's needs are met and they are afforded all the protections of Imperial law while serving their indentured term. The Imperium often uses this system to indenture citizens convicted of minor crimes to force them to pay back their debt to society, rather than let them lounge in jail. Six months of cleaning sewage treatment filter traps by hand, without gloves, makes one not want to break another law.

The Faey are...creative, when it comes to punishment.

Where Trillane was breaking the rules was the length of service. A term of enforced indenture cannot exceed one year unless it's a matter of a convicted criminal serving out a sentence, or it's conscription. They simply weren't letting the workers go after their one year work term, when they were supposed to be returned to their former job/position, then "losing" the paperwork.

[dellstart]

As far as the Imperium's view of slavery goes, they wouldn't consider forced farm work to be slavery, because terms of indentured, involuntary service is part of their system (i.e., conscription). Imperial law states that forced indenturement can be done without paying the indentured as long as all the indentured's needs are met and they are afforded all the protections of Imperial law while serving their indentured term. The Imperium often uses this system to indenture citizens convicted of minor crimes to force them to pay back their debt to society, rather than let them lounge in jail. Six months of cleaning sewage treatment filter traps by hand, without gloves, makes one not want to break another law.

The Faey are...creative, when it comes to punishment.

Where Trillane was breaking the rules was the length of service. A term of enforced indenture cannot exceed one year unless it's a matter of a convicted criminal serving out a sentence, or it's conscription. They simply weren't letting the workers go after their one year work term, when they were supposed to be returned to their former job/position, then "losing" the paperwork.

yep those Faey Batards at work !

[Mad Monk]

As far as the Imperium's view of slavery goes, they wouldn't consider forced farm work to be slavery, because terms of indentured, involuntary service is part of their system (i.e., conscription). Imperial law states that forced indenturement can be done without paying the indentured as long as all the indentured's needs are met and they are afforded all the protections of Imperial law while serving their indentured term. The Imperium often uses this system to indenture citizens convicted of minor crimes to force them to pay back their debt to society, rather than let them lounge in jail. Six months of cleaning sewage treatment filter traps by hand, without gloves, makes one not want to break another law.

The Faey are...creative, when it comes to punishment.

Where Trillane was breaking the rules was the length of service. A term of enforced indenture cannot exceed one year unless it's a matter of a convicted criminal serving out a sentence, or it's conscription. They simply weren't letting the workers go after their one year work term, when they were supposed to be returned to their former job/position, then "losing" the paperwork.

Thanks for the clarification - it is pretty close to what I assumed.

Creative punishment. I'll have to keep that in mind

[ANTIcarrot]

Where Trillane was breaking the rules was the length of service. A term of enforced indenture cannot exceed one year unless it's a matter of a convicted criminal serving out a sentence, or it's conscription. They simply weren't letting the workers go after their one year work term, when they were supposed to be returned to their former job/position, then "losing" the paperwork.

Except that's not the *only* thing Trillane did. Surely one of the major themes of the book was that Trillane was witholding 90% of Imprium civil rights from a significant chunk of humanity (not counting the off world slaves) and treating the whole lot like property. Again and again we're told by Faey characters, "I'm shocked! That 's not legal in the imperium!" But okay, fine. If 'slavery' is the wrong imperium legal term, what would the correct one for the systematic suppression of imperial civil liberties? What is the name for the crimes that have been committed against millions of 'imperial citizens', right under the noses of the imperial marines?

Imperial law states that forced indenturement can be done without paying the indentured as long as all the indentured's needs are met and they are afforded all the protections of Imperial law while serving their indentured term.

You wrote 200,000 words convincing us that Trillane are absolute monsters (with vanishingly rare exceptions) who broke the rules left right and center, at every opportunity they could. And now you're suddenly saying that on the farms they followed the rules to the letter (but for one tiny detail)? That's a big pill to swallow. Then there's the minor issue of farm workers calling their friends on the outside and asking, "Is so and so home yet? No? He left the farm a month ago." I assume that one basic need is at least occasional phone calls? No one tries to call a faey lawyer? No one tries to look their rights up on civnet? I really find it hard to imagine how the Trillane could not suppress this kind of thing without massive violations of 'basic needs'. At which by your own logic is stops becoming indentured service and becomes slavery.

Subjugation works if humanity is oppressed, Trillane are unspeakably evil, and the rest of the Imperium are too self centered to notice or care. But change any part of that and you get some rather large plot holes.

[Mad Monk]

Subjugation works if humanity is oppressed, Trillane are unspeakably evil, and the rest of the Imperium are too self centered to notice or care. But change any part of that and you get some rather large plot holes.

Replace "Humanity" with "Palestinians", "Trillane" with "Israel," and "Imperium" with the "Rest of the World" and you have a situation which many Arabs would agree with.

Almost all speculative fiction requires a limit of suspension of disbelief. Most successful SF/fantasy films / series / books have just as significant plot holes. In LoTR, why didn't they use the giant eagles to get closer to Mordor? In Star Trek, why didn't Kirk get the C**p beaten out of him in any fight? In Hairy Potter, he can battle demons, why can't he fix his astigmatism? In the "Matrix" why did they have to use humans as batteries, why not cows? I read it because I enjoy it, in spite of the flaws. Sometimes the flaws in logic make me laugh.

As for people being too self centered, Most people are more interested in maintaining their lifestyle and having the goodies coming in than in social reform. That cake or biscuit from the shop is made with Palm oil, which is grown on plantations cleared from rainforest and is responsible for Sumatran Tigers and Orangutans being on the brink of extinction. That cheap chocolate in your snack? There is a high probability that it was picked by child slaves in west Africa, even if it is fair-trade. (Over twice as much fair trade chocolate is sold as is produced - do the maths)

Read up about what happens to people who rock the boat in China, I would assume that similar things happen to people in the Imperium. People generally don't want to know, unfortunately that is Human and Faey nature. And people will defend their system, even if it is corrupt or wrong, because it is THEIR system. Like Irish Americans defending the IRA in the 80's, Jews defending Israeli atrocities, and Muslims defending Al-quaida, or Palestinian bombers. In fact, on many forums, any criticism of American policies will have you labeled a Communist, criticism of Israeli policies will have you labeled a Nazi or Fascist, and criticism of suicide bombers will get you labeled a Zionist. Generally nobody cares if you criticize British policies, but if you support any then you are an Imperialist.