Shadow Walker Chapter 9 (Spoliers)

[DigitalMaestro]

Wow... Didn't see that coming.... I wonder how the magic of transformation deals with the lack of ovulation during sex....

-DigitalMaestro

[ANTIcarrot]

Yeah! Seventeen more marvelous (if slow) pages of Shjadow walker! And then...

Well, em, that was stupid. Kyven really needs to watch out for those Idiot Balls more carefully. Then maybe he wouldn't trip over them so obliviously. If you dump arcan sperm into a human, then turn them into an arcan, the sperm is still going to be there. And it's in the hours after sex that pregnancy takes place, not during. Has no one ever sat down with Kyven and explained this kind of thing?

As things stand I've now lost a tremendous amount of respect for him, because he showed a blatant disreguard for her spoken wishes. And the same for Danna for making exactly the same mistake - and then then losing even more respect for her by caving into the shadowfox. Kyven at least earned back some brownie points by suggesting Danna try to bargin. I still hold out a little hope that Danna has a plan, or intends to find a way, to double cross the shadowfox*. But it's very little at the moment. Do they have reliable abortion in this world

*I've said before that even if she can't bargin with Shadowfox directly, the rest of the spirits want her to lead the army, and she could probably bargin with *all* of them to get just one of their number off her back. And if that fails, there's always the John Crichton method. Say please. Pretty please. Pretty please with a cherry on top.

[DigitalMaestro]

Well, em, that was stupid. Kyven really needs to watch out for those Idiot Balls more carefully. Then maybe he wouldn't trip over them so obliviously. If you dump arcan sperm into a human, then turn them into an arcan, the sperm is still going to be there. And it's in the hours after sex that pregnancy takes place, not during. Has no one ever sat down with Kyven and explained this kind of thing?[/i]

The catch here is, and Fel feel free to correct me, I believe it was written earlier that Arcan females ovulate as part of sex, unlike humans that ovulate on a timetable. Assuming that's true, Danna would have the boys swimmin in her with no egg to fertilize. Ergo, no babies, unless she were to ovulate by other means while the sperm remained viable.

-DigitalMaestro

[IdiotPaste]

I found this rather interesting.

Shapes and images floated through the place in a chaotic jumble, because there was no true time here, no true distance. Shadows of the present, past, and future jostled together with shadows from all over Noraam.

Now if there is no time, and there are shadows of the past and future, and all shadows are connected somehow... Could Kyven conceivably shadow walk into the past or future?

[expedient]

I’ve lost respect for Danna as a person as she can’t seem to get over her prejudice. She has accepted that the Arcans are people but she still can’t abide to walk in their shoes. So she wants to return to her own body, that’s fine, but she is so appalled by the notion that she might have to live as an animal that she is willing to waive her principles.

I shall spare you all any sexual or racial metaphors…


On another note, in this chapter Fel has made a number of references to the Shadow Fox Spirit's grand plan:

She did everything she did for a reason, and it was all part of her grand plan, a plan so intricate and convoluted that Kyven couldn’t make heads or tails of it.

Has the gauntlet been thrown? Is someone going to step up to the challenge?

[Omegano]

Has the gauntlet been thrown? Is someone going to step up to the challenge?

I don't dare try to meet that challenge. It's Fel we are talking about, with one of his most cunning and deceitful characters to date. I'd fail miserably.

As things stand I've now lost a tremendous amount of respect for him, because he showed a blatant disreguard for her spoken wishes. And the same for Danna for making exactly the same mistake - and then then losing even more respect for her by caving into the shadowfox.

For me, I've gained some respect for Danna, because she knew when she was beat. The only one who has a chance at outwitting the Shadow Fox is Kyven, Danna has next to no chance. She realized it, and used some simple deception to get it done. For her to do that which she both hated, and in a way feared, shows bravery that not many I've seen might have. Even with having their humanity hung over their heads, how many would submit to what was asked of her?

As for Kyven, yeah, he needs to not let his malehood act as his brain. Granted, he was getting something he lusted after for MONTHS, but still. He should have thought about the consequences of having sex with her as an ARCAN... He's going to be in for a shock, and I can't wait to see it. And as for the people saying that the ovulation takes place durring sex, two words: Shadow Fox. Like she'd let that get in the way.

Now if there is no time, and there are shadows of the past and future, and all shadows are connected somehow... Could Kyven conceivably shadow walk into the past or future?

I think that not even the Shadow Fox has that amount of control over the Shadow World. It probably would be beyond Kyven's ability at any point in his life. If it is even possible in the first place.

Omegano

[ANTIcarrot]

On another note, in this chapter Fel has made a number of references to the Shadow Fox Spirit's grand plan:

She did everything she did for a reason, and it was all part of her grand plan, a plan so intricate and convoluted that Kyven couldn’t make heads or tails of it.

Has the gauntlet been thrown? Is someone going to step up to the challenge?

I'm sticking to my long standing pet theory that she's setting herself up as this world's equivolent of Rainbow Bright from Sennadar. She can exert personal control over shadow fox arcans, ask them to do almost anything, and force them to do everything else. She's building her own private magical army, one capable of taking on a large group of shaman and winning. This is after all the kind of thing that evil overlords do.

For me, I've gained some respect for Danna, because she knew when she was beat. The only one who has a chance at outwitting the Shadow Fox is Kyven, Danna has next to no chance.

Yes, but she doesn't know that. As far as we know she hasn't even tried. To do anything. (Would shadowfox even understand what thalidomide is?) I don't recall her even once trying to reason through what has happened. Closest she's come is ask someone their opinion, accept it uncritically, and then avoid the subject for the next few weeks. I find this lack of analytical intelligence hard to reconcile with the smart woman she was in the first book. Did Shadowfox perhaps take Danna's IQ down a notch or two when she warped her body?

I also find it hard to understand why the arcans & spirts are allowing this kind of thing. No soldier or technician or professional of any kind would drop a computer down a flight of strairs because 'their other tools could take it'. Danna is one of the Arcan's secret weapons. She is one of two Generals, and one gunshot from being their ONLY general. She could be one of the top ten most important people in this war on the Arcan side and they are not treating her as well as they could. I know they have no military experience, and thus probably don't understand why equipment often gets a higher priority on TLC than people do, but this seems very foolish even so.

I can only hope that the fact that Danna is trusting shadowfox even for a second means that this must be a very low moment for her, and that she'll soon up swing and come to her senses. If not then the arcans may have to decide how serious they are about this war. Which is more important to them? Having Danna at her best to help lead them, or letting one spirit play silly mind games?

[DigitalMaestro]

Now if there is no time, and there are shadows of the past and future, and all shadows are connected somehow... Could Kyven conceivably shadow walk into the past or future?

I think that not even the Shadow Fox has that amount of control over the Shadow World. It probably would be beyond Kyven's ability at any point in his life. If it is even possible in the first place.

Perhaps the malleability of time to the Shadow Fox explains her complex plans. Perhaps she has insights that are not currently available to the rest of the world.

In Sennadar, Kikalli and her priests had the ability to read the patterns leading to the future. They were not always right, and they could only read possibilities. Perhaps the Shadow Fox's insights are like that. She can see shades of what might happen in the future and weaves her plans to encourage the future of her choice.

Just another thought,

-DigitalMaestro

[expedient]

Yes, but she doesn't know that. As far as we know she hasn't even tried. To do anything. (Would shadowfox even understand what thalidomide is?) I don't recall her even once trying to reason through what has happened. Closest she's come is ask someone their opinion, accept it uncritically, and then avoid the subject for the next few weeks. I find this lack of analytical intelligence hard to reconcile with the smart woman she was in the first book. Did Shadowfox perhaps take Danna's IQ down a notch or two when she warped her body?

I thought a little along these lines after my previous post. We only have a limited understanding of Danna’s character and while she seemed to me a little whiny and self obsessed whilst in Haven she also has many admirable traits. She is intelligent, doggedly determined and willing to flex when her world view is proven to be based on a false premise. Yet she has appeared to suddenly cave in to the will of the Shadow Fox Spirit. What we need is the story behind that decision, it would help us understand Danna better and also give us some small clues as to what the Shadow Fox Spirit is up to. Maybe it will come out when Kyven finds out about what has happened. Probably Fel will string us along for a few chapters then suddenly take an abrupt direction change that will see us rethinking a number of our previous assumptions.

[expedient]

Now if there is no time, and there are shadows of the past and future, and all shadows are connected somehow... Could Kyven conceivably shadow walk into the past or future?

I think that not even the Shadow Fox has that amount of control over the Shadow World. It probably would be beyond Kyven's ability at any point in his life. If it is even possible in the first place.

Perhaps the malleability of time to the Shadow Fox explains her complex plans. Perhaps she has insights that are not currently available to the rest of the world.

In Sennadar, Kikalli and her priests had the ability to read the patterns leading to the future. They were not always right, and they could only read possibilities. Perhaps the Shadow Fox's insights are like that. She can see shades of what might happen in the future and weaves her plans to encourage the future of her choice.

Just another thought,

-DigitalMaestro

I like this theory. It seems to fit...

[Fel]

Because my real life is making it hard to write at the moment, and to clear up this Danna issue, i'll spoil it a little with this.

The shadow fox threatened Danna with something that made her cave in. She heard what Danna said to Kyven, and she took steps to crush Danna's defiance. Utterly.

It was not pretty.

I was saving it for the next chapter, but Kyven does get the full story from Danna, and it pisses him off to the point where he does something about it.

And that won't be pretty either.

Part of this has been Kyven's fault. He didn't want to get mixed up between Danna and his spirit because of his duty to his spirit and his interest in Danna. He wanted Danna, wanted her as a human, and he was weak enough to think to let her fulfill the shadow fox's demands and present her with a shadow fox Arcan baby to give to Umbra. That was the only way he could see getting her back. But, after visiting her as an Arcan, he realized that it was Danna he wanted, not the human face that had first attracted him, and he found within himself the capability to love her no matter how she looked. That willingness to take Danna no matter how she is was seen as a threat by the shadow fox, and she moved to squelch any defiance out of Danna by threatening her in a way that made her immediately capitulate, get what she wanted before Kyven could further steel up Danna's spine against the fox's demands. This, Kyven will construe as a direct threat against what HE wants, and will rekindle some of his original defiance of his own spirit like what he had against her when she first changed him. Kyven may obey his spirit, but he thinks it's about high time she gets reminded that she does not CONTROL him except by his willingness to follow her, and when he's not willing, by means of threat and intimidation.

And he's just not quite so intimidated by her anymore.

Kyven and the shadow fox are about to go head to head over Danna, where he or she who lies best wins the game.

[dellstart]

Because my real life is making it hard to write at the moment, and to clear up this Danna issue, i'll spoil it a little with this.

The shadow fox threatened Danna with something that made her cave in. She heard what Danna said to Kyven, and she took steps to crush Danna's defiance. Utterly.

It was not pretty.

I was saving it for the next chapter, but Kyven does get the full story from Danna, and it pisses him off to the point where he does something about it.

And that won't be pretty either.

Part of this has been Kyven's fault. He didn't want to get mixed up between Danna and his spirit because of his duty to his spirit and his interest in Danna. He wanted Danna, wanted her as a human, and he was weak enough to think to let her fulfill the shadow fox's demands and present her with a shadow fox Arcan baby to give to Umbra. That was the only way he could see getting her back. But, after visiting her as an Arcan, he realized that it was Danna he wanted, not the human face that had first attracted him, and he found within himself the capability to love her no matter how she looked. That willingness to take Danna no matter how she is was seen as a threat by the shadow fox, and she moved to squelch any defiance out of Danna by threatening her in a way that made her immediately capitulate, get what she wanted before Kyven could further steel up Danna's spine against the fox's demands. This, Kyven will construe as a direct threat against what HE wants, and will rekindle some of his original defiance of his own spirit like what he had against her when she first changed him. Kyven may obey his spirit, but he thinks it's about high time she gets reminded that she does not CONTROL him except by his willingness to follow her, and when he's not willing, by means of threat and intimidation.

And he's just not quite so intimidated by her anymore.

Kyven and the shadow fox are about to go head to head over Danna, where he or she who lies best wins the game.

wicked!!!!

[SYED]

On the shadow plain the creatures are a threat to the shadow fox, and she is vulnerable to kyvens own shadow abilities, there he could have a chance.

[furry_wolf2001b]

Doubtful, in a straight up fight, he will not be able to win.
But Kyven and the shadow fox are not about straight up fights if they can do it smarter.

And whatever kyven knows about the shadow and how it works, she knows more, are more powerful and have more cards up her sleeve, and he knows it.

And reading this thread about the latest chapter, are you all not forgetting something?
The pups/children will be Kyvens, Dana wants Kyven too and in that way too.
Not that giving in is a good or easy thing, but it is not a totally despicable act.

As for her being out of commission, she is pregnant not blind.
Being pregnant may help keeping her more safe because she may take less risks.
Being preggers wont stop her from doing anything she should be doing, witch is lead, plan and command.
Not fighting in the front lines.

AND it is a way to keep her dedicated to the arcan plight if she has offspring that is arcan.

The shadow fox may have the shadow fox arcan as a stopgap for the future, absolute power corrupts and all that.
In the future shamans may not all be so "nice".
When that happens it could be good to have some beings not shamans who can intervene.

And as some one said in this thread, it can perhaps be because she senses possible shadows of the future..

And Kyven had it coming a bit, dose he think he can work and try to hinder his spirits works un interrupted, and get away with it?
He must know she will, or would, hear what he said to Dana and what they both say, because the shadowfox has an interests in both of them, so she is paying attention.
Did he think the shadowfox would take it laying down and not do something in return when her interests are threatened?
He is not stupid, but he may simply not thought about it
You do not go kicking deity's or spirits in the chin, and not expect a reaction.
Especially those who has some kind of hold over you..

[ANTIcarrot]

Kyven and the shadow fox are about to go head to head over Danna, where he or she who lies best wins the game.

I wonder if he'sd still be so incapable of huirting her if he chased her back into the shadow realm. But on another topic...

What about Firetail? I might be overestimating Danna's importance to the Arcans, but I was under the impression they found her capacity for military leadership at least vaguely useful. Beyond a certain point, emotional manpiulation and stress can damage a person's ability to make correct and/or prompt military decisions - and 'crush her defience utterly' sounds like it went beyond that point. Wouldn't the (informal) leader of the arcans be a little bit concerned that an individual they are depending upon is being put under uneeded mental stress. Firetail was annoyed when she learned arcans physicaly attacked Danna and Toby. Would this mental abuse (and the loss of arcan life it may lead to) also not concern her? Even if she isn't, common soldiers tend to grow fond of competent leaders.

At the end of the day, how many bad military decisions are those two cubs worth? How many dead arcan soldiers? Do they in fact bring anything to the war effort? If not, then isn't this risk treasonous? Yes the arcans have faith in the spirits, but how much of it is blind?