Unification - Chapter 3 - Spoilers

[ANTIcarrot]

Actually a political story set on Earth after Rann becomes Grand Duke would make sense.

Here's my fundamental problem with that idea: The Faey behaved like Nazis.

And they didn't care. They still don't care. Aside from a few small details they have shown absolutely no remorse with what they did or how they acted. Now Jason might be enough of a pragmatist to ignore this for the larger long term purpose of reforming the local galactic community - but the people on Earth will remember and they will HATE the Faey Imperium.

And it's not a case of blaming House Trellane. The Empress gave them the contract. She approved the invasion. The imperial marines under her command did sweet fanny adams to stop pretty much anything that Trellane did. In fact the marines we see are far more interested in harassing local humans than actually supervising Trellane. Everything we saw indicates the Faey systematically and deliberately destroyed the global Human economy, along with every single social institution that might have challenged, questioned or even reported such abuses - and then failed to replace them.

And it wasn't just on Earth. Doctors are well respected throughout the Imperium are they? A super version of the Red Cross mixed with Médecins Sans Frontières? What the hell were they doing while all this was going on? Oh yes - they were taking over hospitals and sending any human with basic medical knowledge off to farms. Faey News Services? Enslavement and abuse of 8 billion people is apparently not news worthy. The common citizens? Apparently they're too busy enjoying the fruits of their conquest to wonder where it came from. The non Faey? Not one has so far questioned the Faey doctrine of smash everything and use the natives (however highly skilled) as low cost labor. Dahnai after she learns about this? Listen to what she says. Is she appalled or morally outraged by this? Does she demand justice? No. She's gleeful! She can finally take revenge on an old rival! Because of course that's the most important thing...

The people of Earth have had five years or so to piece things back together. Jason gave them regional autonomy based upon old national boundaries. That means the BBC would be up again within a few months. And they would piece the story together even if no one else would. And they would. Once the populations worst dreads about the occupation were confirmed, no one would have the slightest good thing to say about the Faey.

Or we can be personal. Take Jyslin. Let's pretend for the moment that humans had been telepathic, and/or were capable of fighting back in some meaningful way. How many humans would she have killed before it occurred to her that this was wrong, that it had gone too far? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? Would that thought ever have occurred to her? Does she in fact regret anything she did during the occupation?

1. [Jason] is Human
2. It is known on Earth that he fought against the House that oppressed humanity.
3. He was the one that changed their lives for the better.

I cannot agree. Humans are defined in this story by their complete vulnerability to telepathic abuse. In a real sense there is no such thing as a telepathic human, there are only Faey with unusual skin colors and ear shapes. He's also married to an Imperial 'we didn't stop Trellane as they smashed your face into the dirt' Marine and regularly sleeps with Empress 'neither did I' Dahnai. We don't know that. For all that Fel is willing to spend half a page on technobabble or Jason's sexual exploits, he has yet to write one sentence showing us a single concrete improvement in humanity's lot in life.

This is why I brought up the whole No Endor Holocaust thing. Fel likes to write against backgrounds like an occupied Earth, in the same way many writers like to write stories against a background of occupied France. It's the very definition of Interesting Times and as such is a good time to set stories in. But aside from a couple of rare glimpses into life under the Faey (each of which hammers home how inhuman they were) he has avoided writing about the wider consequences. Possibly because tragedy on that scale might overshadow Jason a little.

While I appreciate your point boballab, I think this will come to a head long before Rann is old enough to have an role in politics [edit]and why Fel will probably never write about it.[/edit] If it doesn't Fel might as well be writing Left Behind novels.

[boballab]

There could be trouble for Rann from people that don't like Faey, but I'm not sure how interesting the story would be. Two points to consider...

1) Kiaari - If she's doing her job right she should hear about any rebellion while it is still in the planning phase.

2) The structure of the government - The Karinnes are in charge of Earth, sure, but they mostly just handle the Academy and affairs with the Empire. The UN is the one running Earth day-to-day, and even then each former nation still handles it's own local affairs. Fel said that the US government reconstituted itself after Jason took over, remember.


I figure Fel hasn't said much about what's going on on Earth because all that is happening is the normal government running stuff, which is generally boring. After all, the story has been on Earth when events of interest occurred there.

1. Kiaari's focus is the academy and the various races that attend there and watching any Faey on the planet. She doesn't have the time nor the resources to have a Kimdori in every podunk town on the planet brushing up against someone and that is all it would take.

2. The reconstituted governments do not have much authority anymore as per Fel when he stated that the US Govenrment had no more power then an old state Government had. As for the UN, well in the US the UN isn't well liked and I wouldn't see that changing afterwards when they technically controlled the disbursement of the planetary purse strings. The thing to remember is that in the end is that Jason as the Grand Duke is the ultimate authority on Planet Earth. The UN could implement a program that people like but if Jason doesn't then if he orders it done away with then it is gone. All Governments on Earth serve at the whim of the Head of House Karrine and once Jason either gives up the house throne or dies that goes to Rann and the Humans know that. If after jason is no longer Grand Duke and Rann decides to abolish every government on the planet then they are gone. That is what someone that is racist will expound and remember Jason doesn't want a police state on earth and I doubt Rann would either, but if they make that person "disappear" or "Re-educate" them then that is what people that know that person will believe. They will go "look what happened to so and so" and that all it would take for people to start to turn against house Karrine.

As for Anti on this one, you and I are closer in agreement then apart, but my "feeling" on this as that the reason Earth isn't in full revolt right now is:

1. Jason is in charge and he did give them back some of earths old bounderies and such

2. Fel pointed out in Subjugation that the House that Jason struck a deal with were appalled by the conditions they found. They were working to make things better and most of the population will see that the Faey are like humans in that some are good and some are bad. However there will be that minority that will never forgive nor never forget and it will take time for them to organize. Jason while still Grand Duke might see some first stirrings of them but once Rann takes over the house that minority will be able to use him to get more recruits to their side by playing on the old outsider theme and the fear of that he looks to Faey.

3. We don't know how long Fel plans to keep Jason alive. He could die at the end of the war with the consortium, but we already have hints from Fel that Rann doesn't have it easy when he takes over as Grand Duke.

[Metatrone]

I have to agree with Anticarrot on this. No way there is an anti Karinne rebellion on Earth.
Rebellions are generally uninteresting events unless they have at least some measure of potential to succeed. And any such rebellion is practically doomed. Jason's was successful only because he had telepathy, resources and most importantly his title and the imperial law on his side. On Terra there aren't anymore telepaths willing to participate in a revolt. There is still overwhelming military presence. And there is no reason to rebel most of all, since House Karinne is the only thing between humans and the power hungry High houses of the Imperium.

There are several things that could make for an interesting conflict that would provide the background for a political series. Dahnai must be unseated or dead, since she is the only true ally to the Karinnes. Without her support Karis would be the greatest technological turkey there is and the first on to grab it would be to far ahead to reach, no matter the consequences. There could be some other reason Karinne has a falling out with the Imperium. And, of course, for Rann to be the main character Jason has to be out of the picture - dead or unavailable in some other way.

[ANTIcarrot]

2. The reconstituted governments do not have much authority anymore as per Fel when he stated that the US Govenrment had no more power then an old state Government had. As for the UN, well in the US the UN isn't well liked and I wouldn't see that changing afterwards

The UN in this case seems more like a Trade Union you need to belong to just to get minimum protection from an abusive and callous employer. I think a lot of Americans today dislike the UN because they have a distorted idea of what it's for and how it works. Jason did seem to explain that the New UN is part of the jerry rigged political system needed to ensure things don't back slide into chaos. I think they'd tolerate it on that basis. For a limited period at least. Depending on how quickly America can get back on it's feet; and how successful Trellane was in it's goal of reducing it to a third world country.

And sure America is like an American state now. but there's no real reason why (say) California couldn't have it's own space program if it's citizens agreed to provide the extra funding. Nor is there any reason to assume that the RNLI wouldn't instantly reclaim it's private 'navy' and invest in a few starships on the side. I'm betting however the UN Laws are written, it's going to effectively mandate a return to business as usual, or near as practical/desirable at any rate.

All Governments on Earth serve at the whim of the Head of House Karrine and once Jason either gives up the house throne or dies that goes to Rann and the Humans know that.

No, they exist or are destroyed at the whim of the Empress. Jason gave them breathing space. They will be grateful, for a while, but I doubt they will bow down and worship him. Or trust him for that matter. He is a Faey after all, whatever his skin tone.First order of business will be to design and deploy some insurance policies so that actual humans, rather than Jason or some snot nosed relative, has some say in Earth's future. They've had ten years to buy a couple of ships, load them with rigged PPGs and 'lose them' in the empty space between stars. That's the simplest and most obvious thing they could do.

Humans can't fight Faey on the ground. But our machines can. And in space or in the air, they will not be close enough for telepathy to make a difference. Humanity will understand this. They will base military doctrine around it.

As for Anti on this one, you and I are closer in agreement then apart, but my "feeling" on this as that the reason Earth isn't in full revolt right now is:

I agree full revolt would be silly. Which is why I think they'll be slowly and quietly building up the industrial, economic, political, and military capacity for planetary defense; of the M.A.D. type if nothing else. And it probably wouldn't be a good idea for Faey to leave the Academy for a while. For the same reason it wasn't a good idea for German tourists to visit Paris in 1946.

but we already have hints from Fel

Much as I enjoy most of Fel's work, I feel the need to draw a distinction between his canon, and what would actually happen if real human beings were involved.

[Isengrim]

2. The reconstituted governments do not have much authority anymore as per Fel when he stated that the US Govenrment had no more power then an old state Government had. As for the UN, well in the US the UN isn't well liked and I wouldn't see that changing afterwards when they technically controlled the disbursement of the planetary purse strings. The thing to remember is that in the end is that Jason as the Grand Duke is the ultimate authority on Planet Earth. The UN could implement a program that people like but if Jason doesn't then if he orders it done away with then it is gone. All Governments on Earth serve at the whim of the Head of House Karrine and once Jason either gives up the house throne or dies that goes to Rann and the Humans know that. If after jason is no longer Grand Duke and Rann decides to abolish every government on the planet then they are gone. That is what someone that is racist will expound and remember Jason doesn't want a police state on earth and I doubt Rann would either, but if they make that person "disappear" or "Re-educate" them then that is what people that know that person will believe. They will go "look what happened to so and so" and that all it would take for people to start to turn against house Karrine.

Well, taking the points in reverse order... If you can get a person convicted of fomenting rebellion by a fair court people tend to accept the verdict, and there's no need to make them "disappear" or reeducate them. If they can't be convicted there seems to be no reason to think that Jason or Rann would chose to make them disappear as opposed to simply having them watched. Moving up, certainly a racist could expound that sort of argument, but I've seen that sort of argument used. It's only effective when examples can be cited. As for the UN being unpopular... there are places in Indiana where nothing above the town government is popular, but that doesn't mean the people in those towns are open to rebellion.

As for Kiaari not having the resources to watch more then the Faey and the Academy... Certainly, putting a Kimdori in every town would be prohibitively expensive, but it's really not needed. Monitoring communications, including civnet groups, without interfering and monitoring trade should allow Kiaari to see rebellions being planned.

I'm not saying Rann couldn't have trouble with racists (after all Fel is a sneaky bastard), but the odds are rather against Rann's troubles being with racists. In fact, as I recall Fel said that Rann would have difficulties in the context of the conflict between human cultural norms and faey cultural norms.

Anticarrot, Fel did show some improvement in the lives of humans at the end of Subjugation. Particularly, farm work is paid instead of labor camp style.

[ANTIcarrot]

Anticarrot, Fel did show some improvement in the lives of humans at the end of Subjugation. Particularly, farm work is paid instead of labor camp style.

Well that's great, but what has he done for us lately? Or then again, no, it isn't really that great. Going from a penniless slave to an indentured slave who can't practically access his (theoretical) large amounts of back pay isn't that much of an improvement. You're still a slave. And speaking of money...

One way to evaluate a company is to work out how much it's worth over (say) ten years based upon it's income. Global GDP is around 55.5 trillion US. Now let's add another 10% to account for the inevitable tooling-up spending spree, and over ten years pre invasion earth was worth $600T. Of course that's only income, and takes no account of infrastructure value. For that we'd need to multiple GDP10Y by a factor of 10 or 100. And of course convert this to Imperial credits. We're definitely getting on for over a quadrillion imperial credits. Again again that's only the collective worth of human property. We still haven't made an account of earth itself, or the rest of the solar system...

I wonder how that compares to the fine Dehani issues to the Trillane; and whether any of it actually made it back to the UN.

[dellstart]

Both sides in this debate , make excellent points.

Human nature being what it is, there is always going to be a certian amount of grumbling.No matter how good or bad the situation is.That's a fact of life.
The question is how really disgruntled the local populous really is.

Without a doubt , the situation on Earth has improved.Within the bounds of their situation , things are looking up.True , its not as good as before the subjugation, nevertheless , at least in some senses , things have somewhat returned to the way they were.You live in your country , with your elected officials and you have a say in the way , you want things run, through the power of the vote.You have to do some farm work , true , but that's a small price for your liberty.No one's pointing a gun to my head and saying I cant live how i want to, be what i want to or go where I want to.

The people of earth realize they are between a rock and hard place and in such a situation , you have to make do with what you can. So even if they will not be too enthused by half faey Grand Duke , its much better than the alternative.

[boballab]

Controversial topics become controversial because humans invest their emotions into them. Take Abortion and Race relations into account here. Why did people bomb and kill other people at abortion clinics? Why did people shoot, hang and burn other people because of a different skin color? Finally why did six million Jews end up being shot, hanged, gassed and worked to death in Germany? Because someone somewhere came to a flawed conclusion and invested his or her emotions into it and things took on a life of their own. The Nazi Party didn't start out as a vast conspiracy, it started out as a handful of men in a bar pissing and moaning over their lot in life. It took almost 15 years before they took over Germany, their first attempt was a failed putsch in 1923. The KKK wasn't born out of whole cloth,it was the idea of 1 man, a former confederate caveraly officer. Fel actually provided us with an example of a disgruntled group acting on their emotions in chapter 4, with the usual outcome: Someone died and people jump to conclusions and invest their emotions and make things worse.

Bigots would still be roaming planet earth and the Faey provide a nice big target to them. Under Trillane they really had no hope of attacking them so they went into the wildnerness to hide out, just like Jason did in Subjgation. Now Trillane ran Earth as a police state, Jason doesn't which makes it easier for bigot groups to flourish not harder. These type of groups don't need modern communications to form, just word of mouth. That is how the Nazi's and the KKK started word of mouth. One pissed off person talking to another pissed off person and you take it from there. Just as Anti said it will take them years to organise out in the wilderness and they can always use "legit" front groups for terrorist cells, just like Sinn Fain did for the IRA. Bottom line Bigots were with us in Civil War America. They were with us in Nazi Germany. They were with us in the 50's South and in South Africa. They are with us today and they will be with us in any type of future we have just looking for that flawed conclusion.

[ANTIcarrot]

Now Trillane ran Earth as a police state, Jason doesn't which makes it easier for bigot groups to flourish not harder.

I'm not sure I understand your focus on such groups. Bigots make things up about minorities. The Faey though are a majority (in galactic terms) and have already proven beyond all doubt how little value they place upon human life. They also have ... unusual sexual practices. You don't need to make things up. You don't need to stir things up. Everyone saw it with their own eyes. It's like worrying there might be groups stirring up hatred against the Nazis at the end of world war II. It's kinda redundant doing this after the Faey/Nazis have already been caught with their pants down committing the most unspeakable war crimes on a scale never before witnessed by human eyes.

Edit:
On the other hand, if you mean groups organising to commit revenge attacks, then yes, I'd wholeheartedly agree with that.