Demon's Bane, Chapter 9 (SPOILERS AHOY!)

[afrigeek]

well and it would be nice to get an elder god on pyrosia to keep the one in line and also to take charge of the ALL in that realm, maybe give it some sentience and guiding force thus giving rise to druids later on..

[Fiferguy]

well and it would be nice to get an elder god on pyrosia to keep the one in line and also to take charge of the ALL in that realm, maybe give it some sentience and guiding force thus giving rise to druids later on..

I don't know if it's that easy though... I think the GoG will have to either step in and make the original elder god of Pyrosia come back. If not, maybe he'll create another elder to manage Pyrosia. I can't see one of the current Gods of Pyrosia taking over the weave...there's a lot of bad mojo right now, and now their hated enemy, The One, is back. He did promise Tarrin, however, so maybe they'll give him a second chance.

I can't really see Tarrin's Shadow taking over the weave. Yes, it is a creation of divine magic, but it is NOT a God. And I can't see Tarrin doing it either. Everything he's done so far is for the express purpose of being able to go back home. I'm sure Fel has some wing-dinger of a surprise for us regarding this though, so I'm content to wait it out...

[storyreader2005]

...
I'm sure Fel has some wing-dinger of a surprise for us regarding this though, so I'm content to wait it out...

I don't know if it would be that big of a surprise, but I do agree that he's got something up his sleeve.

I would like to say that I'm content to wait it out as well... but I'm not. But I also don't want the story to end either so I'm in kind of a dilemma here.

[Fiferguy]

...
I'm sure Fel has some wing-dinger of a surprise for us regarding this though, so I'm content to wait it out...

I don't know if it would be that big of a surprise, but I do agree that he's got something up his sleeve.

I would like to say that I'm content to wait it out as well... but I'm not. But I also don't want the story to end either so I'm in kind of a dilemma here.

Eh, Fel has numerous other designs up his sleeves for other stories... there are a few threads around here about that one, so I won't go into it. But rest assured that even after DB is over, we haven't heard the last from Fel. He has to do something to keep the rabid readers at bay... COUGHCOUGHLOCHARANDMICHAELSUAVECOUGHCOUGH...

[Peter_Koopman]

You really don't need anymore drugs since you missed the last half of Demon's Bane chapter 7.

Tarrin took both the duplicate body and the soletrap/cat statue to the "Heart" where he splits his sole into mortal and divine, sticks his mortal sole into the body, and his divine half is destroyed by being in a material plane without any protection.

Dang, you're right! I didn't mis the last half of Demon's Bane chapter 7, but I forgot the cat statue being there.

I figured that Tarrin cheated death several times already. seeming dead, but not quite. Fel likes to tease us that way.

I'm still not entirely convinced his divine soul died. Since he died in Weavespinner and was recreated by Niami, one could argue that he is now a child of Niami too. I know, Mother only recreated his body, but I'm not so sure she hadn't some tricks up her sleeve.

Tarrin's divine half being destroyed, perhaps was only his point of view. Not the real thing.

[Peter_Koopman]

1. It's pretty clear from Fel's language that Tarrin's divine soul was destroyed.

Since when do Fel's use of words make something true? Fel's words are slippery like eels in wrestling oil!

2. Even if it were not destoyed, it was a creation of the firestaff--bad mojo.

I don't agree. The other gods were afraid of him, because he was not bound by the rules of Aiyse. Not because he was corrupted by the firestaf. At least not as far as I remember. The Firestaf itself is an entirely other story. It's reason for creating Gods outside the rules, is creating chaos.

3. You really need an elder god for this kind of job. The younger gods are a bit too vulnerable to be suitable.

Tarrin... In any form... doesn't strike me as too vulnerable.

Yep, and besides, Tarrin REALLY REALLY doesn't want to be a god. He just wants to live at home with his family, get some excitement every now and then, and just enjoy living out his days.

I seem to remember that the divine part of Tarrin was much more mellow than the werecat. Tarrin's divine soul is a protector, a God of duty. I'm convinced an entirely new god will be born, when the cat is separated from the divine part.

Oh well.. We'll just have to wait until the divine Wordspinner magics a new chapter into being.

[storyreader2005]

You really don't need anymore drugs since you missed the last half of Demon's Bane chapter 7.

Tarrin took both the duplicate body and the soletrap/cat statue to the "Heart" where he splits his sole into mortal and divine, sticks his mortal sole into the body, and his divine half is destroyed by being in a material plane without any protection.

Dang, you're right! I didn't mis the last half of Demon's Bane chapter 7, but I forgot the cat statue being there.

I figured that Tarrin cheated death several times already. seeming dead, but not quite. Fel likes to tease us that way.

I'm still not entirely convinced his divine soul died. Since he died in Weavespinner and was recreated by Niami, one could argue that he is now a child of Niami too. I know, Mother only recreated his body, but I'm not so sure she hadn't some tricks up her sleeve.

Tarrin's divine half being destroyed, perhaps was only his point of view. Not the real thing.

Well, no. Remember Tarrin had Niami tell Dolanna that "she was showing true faith in Tarrin but that he was mortal, not a god, and that it was time to stop" before he entered the gate to Sennadar? That was so that Tarrin would enter the world as strictly a child of the firestaff.

That means the divine half that Tarrin separated from himself was from the firestaff and the Elder Gods would *never* let that remain in any way, shape, or form.

The 2 "tricks" that Niami gave Tarrin's body when she created it, that we know about, was:
1) the ability to take human form without pain
2) Tarrin tells Dolanna in Sword of Fire chapter 13 “She increased my power in Sorcery,” he grunted. “Probably some kind of odd need to bring me up to Jasana’s level. No offense, Dolanna, but Niami seems to favor me over most other Sorcerers. I think it offended her sensibilities that my daughter is a stronger Sorcerer than I am, so she cheated. I’ve never told anyone either of those things, and you’d better keep it to yourself.”

I guess that we can now add that Tarrin is now something like an Avatar because of his "new" wings being some kind of direct link back to Niami.

[Peter_Koopman]

Well, no. Remember Tarrin had Niami tell Dolanna that "she was showing true faith in Tarrin but that he was mortal, not a god, and that it was time to stop" before he entered the gate to Sennadar? That was so that Tarrin would enter the world as strictly a child of the firestaff.

You had to go and completely destroy my theory now did you?

Good points. I haven't got time to reread the books at this moment, so I have to yield to your superior powers of knowledge.

Let's wait and see what the sui'kun of words from planet Earth will weave.

Hmmm, blue pills... Haven't seen those before.

[TStyle]

2. Even if it were not destoyed, it was a creation of the firestaff--bad mojo.

If I remember correctly, after stripping the divine portion of Tarrin's soul from him Ayise stripped it of the Firestaff's power turning the divine half of his soul into that of a younger god, more specifically, one that was considered 'one of her children' before it was 'destroyed' by the ravages of the mortal plane.

The part of him which was mortal was pulled inexorably into the Soultrap. That which remained, the power of the All attacked once again, enacting change. Though the divine soul could not be changed into a mortal soul, that divine soul could itself be transformed into something similar to itself. The taint of the Firestaff was stripped from it, forever destroying the link between Tarrin and that artifact.

Tarrin was no longer a child of the Firestaff. Instead, the power of Ayise seared through him, transforming him into one of her children. And being one of her children, Ayise and the Elder Gods had no reason to oppose him.

[michaelsuave]

2. Even if it were not destoyed, it was a creation of the firestaff--bad mojo.

If I remember correctly, after stripping the divine portion of Tarrin's soul from him Ayise stripped it of the Firestaff's power turning the divine half of his soul into that of a younger god, more specifically, one that was considered 'one of her children' before it was 'destroyed' by the ravages of the mortal plane.

The part of him which was mortal was pulled inexorably into the Soultrap. That which remained, the power of the All attacked once again, enacting change. Though the divine soul could not be changed into a mortal soul, that divine soul could itself be transformed into something similar to itself. The taint of the Firestaff was stripped from it, forever destroying the link between Tarrin and that artifact.

Tarrin was no longer a child of the Firestaff. Instead, the power of Ayise seared through him, transforming him into one of her children. And being one of her children, Ayise and the Elder Gods had no reason to oppose him.

Umm, no. I don't know where you got that tarrin's divine soul was made a younger god. It was firestaff divine power, outside of the realm of Ayise. And a soul cannot survive the physical world without the protection of a manifest material body, even a divine soul. Tarrin's divine soul disintigrated, part of tarrin is not and was never a younger god... Tarrin is no longer a god. If this was a court case, I would suggest you follow the evidentiary rule of completeness and read that complete section of him changing, not just the dialog of the seperation of his mortal and divine soul. Sorry, I've got law school on the brain as finals are upon me. Just re-read the section please, same with the walina and the knots, as I believe Karriane (wikuni queen, too late at night for me to look up the spelling*) would tie off her wards with a knot. It was only with the shadow realm that Tarrin discovered a knot that continually fed from the weave and was held together by its weaving, and not the weaver...

[TStyle]

I realize Terrin is no longer a god, what I'm saying is after Ayise split Terrin's soul into half, one half mortal which went into the soultrap then into his body the other half was the divine portion of his soul which was destroyed by the mortal plane.

The way I read it was before Terrin's divine half was destroyed Ayise scoured the traces of the Firestaff's power out of/transformed it and thus for a brief second or two before it was destroyed the divine half of his soul was that of a true younger god, one that Ayise no reason to challenge.

That was the only point I was trying to make. Right before it was destroyed, the divine portion of his soul was that of a younger god, not a child of the Firestaff. Reread that portion of the chapter, I may be wrong but thats how it sounded to me.

[michaelsuave]

[ deleted by Michaelsuave]

[michaelsuave]

I realize Terrin is no longer a god, what I'm saying is after Ayise split Terrin's soul into half, one half mortal which went into the soultrap then into his body the other half was the divine portion of his soul which was destroyed by the mortal plane.

The way I read it was before Terrin's divine half was destroyed Ayise scoured the traces of the Firestaff's power out of/transformed it and thus for a brief second or two before it was destroyed the divine half of his soul was that of a true younger god, one that Ayise no reason to challenge.

That was the only point I was trying to make. Right before it was destroyed, the divine portion of his soul was that of a younger god, not a child of the Firestaff. Reread that portion of the chapter, I may be wrong but thats how it sounded to me.

Yep, reread that portion. She scoured the divine from his MORTAL portion. There is no way to scour the power of the firestaff away from the divine portion of Tarrin's soul. Picture it this way, Tarrin didn't want to be a threat to the Sennadar elder gods right? So he First stops Dolanna from seeing him as a god and sustaining his powers (powers given him by the firestaff*). Now the Gods are only frightened of him because he is part of the firestaff, and outside the rules of the eldergods. If Ayise could transmute the power of the firestaff into on of her younger gods, then the firestaff wouldn't really be a problem now would it? But unfortunately it doesn't work that way. If you picture it like cleaning your room or your garage, the ALL seperated out all of tarrin's mortal half (because he started out mortal*) and put that into the soul trap and new body, and then placed all of the "bad stuff" (divine power of firestaff*) in a different place. I think your making this too complicated, plus, if the Elder gods could just change the power of the firestaff and put it under their control, then they wouldn't have had all of these problems in the first place. Yes, in a way Tarrin was a younger god, in that his powers were sustained by a worshiper, Dolanna. But he was a younger god outside the rules of Ayise, a younger god who if he had a body and his sword had the ability of rivalling the power of an elder god. But no matter if he was an elder god, or a younger god, he was always outside the controls of the elder gods and Ayise, because he was not a child of Ayise. The weakness in your arguement is that If it was as easy as transmuting the power of Tarrin into being a younger god of Ayise, then he wouldn't have had to go on the journey, and the elder gods wouldn't have really been scared of him... because there would have been a quick fix. Does this help sort it out? Ask Lochar, he's the Sennadar Font of knowledge. But I'm pretty sure he will agree that Tarrin was never, and neither was any part of his soul, a child of Ayise... only a child of the firestaff.

[Wicketklown001]

There is no way to scour the power of the firestaff away from the divine portion of Tarrin's soul.

I think you may be mistaken...

. Though the divine soul could not be changed into a mortal soul, that divine soul could itself be transformed into something similar to itself. The taint of the Firestaff was stripped from it, forever destroying the link between Tarrin and that artifact.

I bolded the part that seems to contradict you. Of course I've been wrong before but that's how I interpreted it.

edit:

If Ayise could transmute the power of the firestaff into on of her younger gods, then the firestaff wouldn't really be a problem now would it?

I think Ayise was able to do this only because Tarrin was willing to let her, had he been opposed to it I don't think she could have done it because then his divine soul would have fought the change, hence the problems with other children of the firestaff.

[michaelsuave]

. Though the divine soul could not be changed into a mortal soul, that divine soul could itself be transformed into something similar to itself. The taint of the Firestaff was stripped from it, forever destroying the link between Tarrin and that artifact.

I bolded the part that seems to contradict you. Of course I've been wrong before but that's how I interpreted it.

If Ayise could transmute the power of the firestaff into one of her younger gods, then the firestaff wouldn't really be a problem now would it?

I think Ayise was able to do this only because Tarrin was willing to let her, had he been opposed to it I don't think she could have done it because then his divine soul would have fought the change, hence the problems with other children of the firestaff.

But that is the key, right in that phrase you pointed out. Focus on the word, "IT" The taint of the Firestaff was stripped from it, forever destroying the link between Tarrin and that artifact. It was stripped from his soul, from his body, from his person. I can see why you could believe that, but It was the divine portion of Tarrin, and the "gift" of the firestaff that was stripped of Tarrin's body/soul and then destroyed, not the taint of the firestaff stripped from tarrin's divine portion. Read through what the image in Tarrin's head is, what he is asking the all to do. He is asking Ayise/the All to seperate the divine from the mortal, to strip the taint of the firestaff from him. Don't you think that if Tarrin could have merely stripped the taint of the firestaff from the divine portion of his soul and leave all the neat tricks that he would have done so? Simple fix, no problem, no threat to the elder gods... It all revolves around what "It" is, and the only image that Tarrin and Ayise agreed upon was the seperating of the divine part of Tarrin's soul, from that of his mortal portion. No where else but in that one line you quoted does it really appear that Tarrin's divine portion could have been a young god.

Besides, since dolanna had ceased to believe in tarrin as a god, and young god's require believe in order to survive, his divine soul portion would have merely ceased to exist, and Fel would not have had to go through the description of the disintigration of Tarrin's divine "half." Parts of Tarrin so far have been, mortal, immortal werecat, eldergod, demigod/mortal god, shadow, and now former child of the firestaff/sortof avatar of Niami... Every time something like a form change has happened, Fel has specifically named that portion and described it. Nowhere does Fel describe Tarrin or part of Tarrin as a Younger God of Sennadar/Ayise.

I Also could be reading this wrong, but I think that when you look at the overall context and reread all of the books, you will see that Fel is pretty good about calling it like it is... well sometimes he's a tricksy bugger, but you can't deny that he is incredibly detailed in his work; especially in regards to Tarrin. And the lack of discussion of Tarrin being an Young God/child of Ayise is just a stretch, especially when its based off of this one line only. I'm sure Lochar or Fel could describe it better...

~Michael